Gumby - I had always been led to believe that Satan & Jesus were in a sense brothers - both sons of God, with Jesus being God's "first born". Now, in the 16 years I was a witness, it was made clear to me that Satan had most, if not all, the same abilities as Jesus, with one exception - God. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, as its been a few years, but that's how I remembered it - both Jesus & Satan - sons of God.
Is Satan Equal and Opposite to Jehovah?
by jgnat 18 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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jgnat
gumby, I am a "never in". I depend on you guys to keep me straight. Correct me if I am wrong, but WTS writers consider Micheal the Archangel to be Jesus. Now, Michael has had some "close encounters" with Satan, at times battling over several days. That makes them more evenly matched than if Jesus had the same divinity and power as Jehovah. That is what I found in some of the articles I read. If Jesus is more angel than god, Satan might just be able to best him in a fight.
Edited by - jgnat on 2 December 2002 23:11:54
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onacruse
pettygrudger: Yes, the WTS does teach (and has for at least the last 50 years) that Jesus and Satan are brothers, as well as ALL the angels. But as jgnat also says, Jesus is considered by dubs to be Michael the archangel, and as such must have some superior powers of some kind.
As far as prolonged struggles between Jesus (assuming he is the same as Michael) and Satan are concerned, the only one I'm aware of is recorded in Rev 12. In vs 8 it simply says that Satan (assuming he is the same as the dragon) lost that battle, without any reference to the time frame of the battle. Of course, JWs teach that this "historic" confrontation occured between 1914 and 1918, for a span of 3 1/2 years. If so, it WOULD seem that Jesus and Satan, or at least Jesus's forces and Satan's forces, are somewhat more evenly matched than most dubs would be comfortable admitting.
Craig
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jgnat
I was thinking of the spiritual battle that lasted 21 days recorded in Daniel 10:13. I looked it up. I was not dreaming. It was Michael. Of course, it could have been a different Michael. Like Michael Jackson. You never know.
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onacruse
jgnat, perhaps I am misreading, but I read Dan 10:13 to mean that the angel originally talking with Daniel was fighting with the (prob demon) "prince of the Persian kingdom" for 21 days, and THEN Michael stepped in and put an end to it.
As an aside, the 1599 Geneva Bible has an interesting note on Dan 10:13---
But the {h} prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, {i} Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
(h) Meaning Cambyses, who reigned in his fathers absence, and did not only for this time hinder the building of the temple, but would have further raged, if God had not sent me to resist him: and therefore I have stayed for the profit of the Church.
(i) Even though God could by one angel destroy all the world, yet to assure his children of his love he sends forth double power, even Michael, that is, Christ Jesus the head of angels.Calvin comments:
He adds next, Behold! Michael, one of the chief leaders or princes, came to strengthen me. Some think the word Michael represents Christ, and I do not object to this opinion. Clearly enough, if all angels keep watch over the faithful and elect, still Christ holds the first rank among them, because he is their head, and uses their ministry and assistance to defend all his people. But as this is not generally admitted, I leave it in doubt for the present...
I am not aware of any modern commentator that allows for Michael and Jesus to be the same person.
Craig
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jgnat
Craig, thanks for the research. Do you have those commentaries sewn in to your hip pocket? You are right about the 21 days. I tried to sneak that one through. You caught me.
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onacruse
jgnat
I have the Online Bible CD...it's great! More stuff on it than I will ever need. Just about free, too, except for the licenses you have to buy for certain Bibles.
If you are interested, for Canada the ordering info is:
Cross Country Software,
83 Mountford Drive,
Guelph, ON. N1E 6E7Tel. (888) 767-2266
E-mail: [email protected]Web Site -
http://www.davepohl.comTo download English materials (most, if not all, free):
Craig (of the "tries not to copy and paste too much"class)
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jgnat
Craig, I now have to change the marvelous image I had of you in your oak-lined study, surrounded by dusty tomes, fingers black from thumbing through thousands of pages of rice paper....So far I have been too cheap to PAY for my research aids. I found http://www.e-sword.net/. Some of the bibles and commentaries are free. I picked up everything that is free.
Imagine for a moment a dumpy and pleasant bag lady, her shopping cart loaded with brochures, newsletters, and other free treasures she has collected on her daily rounds...
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onacruse
jgnat: And I was just about to ask you to send me a contribution for my library.
Tax deductible, of course, and more importantly...it is all Bible-based (tm)
Craig