Baptism: minute detail but missing the spirit

by Simon 19 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Simon
    Simon

    Just a thought about how the WTS handles baptisms ...

    It's strange isn't it that they pay such minute attention to detail for the actual baptism itself - someone scrutinises the whole event and should anyone's big toe sticks out the water then they get dunked again.

    Why?

    Do they think getting completely covered is some magical spiritual thing?

    Do they suppose that god wouldn't accept it if someone unnoticed didn't go under completely?

    Do they think that is how it supposedly happened in bible times when people were baptised in rivers and the sea by the thousands?

    They are so precise on the detail ... but miss the spirit of it all. Of course it is symbolic. It doesn't matter if you are help under till you turn blue, go 10 metres down or just have a splash of water on your head. It's what it symbolises that matters and it's here where they seem to completely miss the point.

    I guess they are just repeating the same mindset as they have with blood and end up valuing the symbol (blood) more than the thing that it symbolises (life).

  • PurpleV
    PurpleV

    Maybe those who don't want to be DF'd because of family, but want to leave, could claim they weren't completely submerged so they weren't really baptized?

    BTW, when I joined the Episcopal church, I was baptized as an adult, they said my JW baptism "didn't count!" No wonder, because JWs are baptized into the organization, not to Jesus' death.

    Do they suppose that god wouldn't accept it if someone unnoticed didn't go under completely?

    Sure, along with stuff like God wouldn't "notice" a pedophile because he wasn't DF'd, or He wouldn't notice if you took a blood fraction as long as it wasn't whole blood, or if your own recirculated blood hit the air at any time. Or He'd mind if you stood for the national anthem if you weren't ALREADY standing for the flag salute.

    It's all about control.

  • Scully
    Scully

    Simon:

    You just made me remember something rather comical that happened to an older woman at her baptism many many years ago:

    She was on the heavy side and the first time they dunked her under the water, her feet popped up. They tried again, and again her feet popped up. Same thing on the third and fourth tries. Finally the "baptizer" had another brother come over to hold her legs down so that she could be completely immersed. He figured it would be enough to kind of stand straddle-legged in front of her and try to catch her legs when they bobbed up. (Can you see where this is going?? LOL)

    Well, she did get baptized. Finally. And while she was able to walk out of the pool on her own, the brother who "helped" her the most required assistance because he wasn't able to walk for a while.

    Love, Scully

  • minimus
    minimus

    Baptism is so literal that if you are not actually able to get in the water (for health reasons), you are supposed to find a way to still get baptized. If you don't, you are still not saved and that means you are going to die.

  • gumby
    gumby

    This isn't even mentioning the fact they left out the last formula Jesus gave.....the Spirit......as they changed it to "God's spirit directed organisation."

    Actually, they aren't alone in making sure your all the way UNDER. Other faiths want you completely wet as well.

  • onacruse
    onacruse

    Selective copy and paste of Barne's notes on Matt 3:6 (bold added):

    "The word baptize signifies originally to tinge, to dye, to stain, as those who dye clothes. It here means to cleanse or wash anything by the application of water...Washing, or ablution, was much in use among the Jews, as one of the rites of their religion...It was not customary, however, among them, to baptize those who were converted to the Jewish religion until after the Babylonish captivity. At the time of John, and for some time previous, they had been accustomed to administer a rite of baptism, or washing, to those who became proselytes to their religion; that is, who were converted from being Gentiles...It was a solemn rite of washing, significant of cleansing from their former sins, and purifying them for the peculiar service of Jehovah. John found this custom in use; and as he was calling the Jews to a new dispensation, to a change in their form of religion, he administered this right of baptism, or washing, to signify the cleansing from their sins, and adopting the new dispensation...The Hebrew Word (tabal) which is rendered by the word baptize, occurs in the Old Testament in the following places, viz. : #Le 4:6 14:6,51 Nu 19:18 Ru 2:14 Ex 12:22 De 33:24 Eze 23:15 #Job 9:31 Le 9:9 1Sa 14:27 2Ki 5:14 8:15 Ge 37:31 Jos 3:15. It occurs in no other places; and from a careful examination of these passages, its meaning among the Jews is to be derived. From these passages, it will be seen that its radical meaning is not to sprinkle, or to immerse. It is to dip, commonly for the purpose of sprinkling, or for some other purpose...In none of these cases can it be shown that the meaning of the word is to immerse entirely. But in nearly all the cases, the notion of applying the water to a part only of the person or object, though it was by dipping, is necessarily to be supposed.

    The following remarks may be made in view of the investigation of the meaning of this word.

    1st. That in baptism it is possible, perhaps probable, that the notion of dipping would be the one that would occur to a Jew.

    2nd. It would not occur to him that the word meant of necessity to dip entirely, or completely to immerse.

    3rd. The notion of washing would be the one which would most readily occur as connected with a religious rite. See the cases of Naaman, and #Mr 7:4, (Greek.)

    4th. It cannot be proved from an examination of the passages in the Old and New Testaments, that the idea of a complete immersion ever was connected with the word, or that it ever in any case occurred. If they went into the water, still it is not proved by that, that the only mode of baptism was by immersion, as it might have been by pouring, though they were in the water.

    5th. It is not positively enjoined anywhere in the New Testament that the only mode of baptism shall be by an entire submersion of the body under water. Without such a precept, it cannot be made obligatory on people of all ages, nations, and climes, even if it were probable that in the mild climate of Judea it was the usual mode."

    This is entirely new to me! I've never bothered to verify the WTS statements about baptism and full body immersion.

    Maybe they don't even have the details right?

    Craig

  • Scully
    Scully

    When someone converts to Judaism, a ritual immersion is required for the candidate, similar to the way baptism is performed by JWs.

    Jewish law requires mikvah (ritual immersion) for men and women, and circumcision or ritual circumcision (drawing one drop of blood from an already circumcised foreskin) for men. Converts also meet with a bet din, which means literally "house of law," and is a Jewish court that usually consists of three rabbis who examine the candidate about his or her knowledge of Judaism. Not all liberal rabbis require their students to participate in all these rituals, although the tendency is to do them all in some form.

    Mikvah, immersion in a ritual bath accompanied by two short prayers, is required of all converts to Judaism, regardless of sex or age. Like virtually all religious traditions, Judaism treats water as the symbol of rebirth and renewal. The mikvah also represents the source of human life, the waters of the womb. According to one legend, the "living water" of mikvah flows from the mystical source of all water and all life, the river whose source is Eden.

    - Living a Jewish Life, Anita Diamant (pp 279, 280)

    It's always fascinated me that JWs follow so much of Jewish tradition, without actually embracing Judaism. From the ritual of baptism, to the myriad of written and unwritten laws on everything under the sun, to the "judicial committees" that bear a striking resemblance to the bet din that is described briefly above, JWs - with the exception of observing the Jewish festivals - are almost like Jews who believe in Jesus.

    Love, Scully

  • TR
    TR
    I guess they are just repeating the same mindset as they have with blood and end up valuing the symbol (blood) more than the thing that it symbolises (life).

    I guess that makes 'hovahs idolators.

    TR

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    My Grandfather was baptised in his bath at home.

    Englishman.

  • SYN
    SYN

    The tie-in between baptism (total water immersion) and the Aquatic Ape Theory is a very interesting one indeed. Perhaps Jesus was onto something after all

    There was a discussion about this some time before, but I carn't quite remember who started it. What is pretty funny is how they think if even your bloody toe sticks out of the water that you're still unsaved. I never quite worked up the nerve to tell the Elders that my left foot was exhibiting definite Apostate tendencies after it pulled a "floater" during the Convention. Apparently there's even a little tick-box on the Secret Congregation Transgressions Form (10348232e2wt) that they use to track your sins, where the Elders are allowed to specify whether they suspect you of having pulled a "Floater" during your baptism. That's the way Apostates get into the BORG, you know - they leave part of their body out of the water during baptism, and then they go in as "wolves in sheep's clothing" (which is not quite as naughty as cross-dressing, unless you're a Furry). So, part of your body can be Apostate. It would truly suck if your nose was Apostate and you weren't - it would be a dead giveaway, as the nose wouldn't go to meetings and would ask questions during the Watchtower and stuff. What would be quite cool is if your one hand was Apostate, so you'd be able to squeak the ewok without guilt, as it would be your Apostate hand doing it, and that isn't covered in the Youth Book, so you're home clear.

    [SYN], Youth-Book-Loop-Hole Detective Extraodinaire Class

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit