by YoungerTom 20 Replies latest jw friends
Greetings
I'm new around here please be kind to me. I have been lurking for a while and finally figured out how to post.
My question to you is. Is Jesus the Mediator for everybody or just the annointed?
I dare not ask this question at the Kingdom Hall but a recent interested person at the door asked the question.
Thanks YoungerTom
Hi Younger Tom and welcome!
The scripture at 1Timothy 2:5 I accept before what opinion the society might have about it.
---
In time the savage bull doth bear the yoke -- Much Ado About Nothing (Shakespeare)
: Is Jesus the Mediator for everybody or just the annointed?
Just the anointed:
*** w90 7/1 9 The Memorial Supper ***
The new covenant, which is made operative by Jesus’ shed blood, replaces the old Law covenant. It is mediated by Jesus Christ between two parties—on the one hand, Jehovah God, and on the other, 144,000 spirit-begotten Christians. Besides providing for the forgiveness of sins, the covenant allows for the formation of a heavenly nation of king-priests. Matthew 26:21-29; Mark 14:18-25; Luke 22:19-23; John 13:18-30; 17:12; 1 Corinthians 5:7.
*** w79 11/15 27 Benefiting from "One Mediator Between God and Men" ***
A “GREAT CROWD” OF EARTHLY BENEFICIARIES
23 Today, according to authentic records, there is a “great crowd” of dedicated, baptized Christians who actively collaborate with the small remnant of spiritual Israelites. Ever since the spring of 1938 they have been invited to attend the annual memorial celebration of Christ’s death, not to partake of the memorial emblems, the unleavened bread and the red wine, but as respectful observers. They recognize Jesus Christ as their heavenly King since the Gentile Times ended in 1914. They zealously join the remnant of spiritual Israelites in preaching “this good news of the kingdom” in all the inhabited earth for a “witness to all the nations” before this system of things ends in the coming “great tribulation.” (Matt. 24:14, 21) They recognize that they are not spiritual Israelites in the new covenant mediated by Jesus Christ, nor part of the “chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation.”—1 Pet. 2:9.
*** w62 11/15 689 Subjection to "Superior Authorities"-Why? ***
For example, the nation of Israel was under the laws of the old covenant that Moses had mediated for them with Jehovah; whereas the “holy nation” of spiritual Israel has, since A.D. 33, been under the Christian laws of God’s new covenant mediated by his Son Jesus Christ.
*** w94 12/15 11 Jehovah Can Make You Powerful ***
17 Whatever our hope, heavenly or earthly, we thank God daily for our deliverance from this evil system of darkness, accomplished by our faith in the precious provision of the ransom sacrifice of Jehovah’s dear Son. (Matthew 20:28) Spirit-anointed Christians have benefited from the ransom being applied to them in a special way so that they can be ‘transferred into the kingdom of the Son of God’s love.’ (Luke 22:20, 29, 30) But the “other sheep” also benefit from the ransom even now. (John 10:16) They can receive God’s forgiveness so as to have a righteous standing before him as his friends. They have a large share in proclaiming “this good news of the kingdom” in this time of the end. (Matthew 24:14) Beyond that, they have the marvelous hope of becoming completely righteous and physically perfect, by the end of Christ’s Millennial Reign. As you read the description at Revelation 7:13-17, see if you do not agree that this would be proof of being delivered and blessed.
*** w59 7/15 440 Israel's Tabernacle Shadows ***
Today Israel’s tabernacle shadows are of force and value to both the “little flock” and the “great crowd” of “other sheep.” Both classes benefit from the great antitypical day of atonement sacrifice, Christ’s ransom, though in varying degrees. And while only the little flock are shown as serving in the courtyard and in the Holy of the tabernacle, the picture at Revelation 7:9-17 shows a great crowd of “other sheep” serving in the temple. Both classes therefore are under the obligation to shine forth the light of truth and to offer to all the spiritual bread of God’s Word. Thus for both classes Israel’s tabernacle shows the blessed benefits they have received and will yet receive in God’s new world as well as their responsibilities. How true that all these things have been recorded for our instruction and comfort!
*** w95 7/1 11 Christian Witnesses With Heavenly Citizenship ***
9 The worldwide body of anointed Christians is “the congregation of the firstborn who have been enrolled in the heavens.” (Hebrews 12:23) They are the first to benefit from Jesus’ ransom sacrifice.
*** w94 12/15 11 Jehovah Can Make You Powerful ***
17 Whatever our hope, heavenly or earthly, we thank God daily for our deliverance from this evil system of darkness, accomplished by our faith in the precious provision of the ransom sacrifice of Jehovah’s dear Son. (Matthew 20:28) Spirit-anointed Christians have benefited from the ransom being applied to them in a special way so that they can be ‘transferred into the kingdom of the Son of God’s love.’ (Luke 22:20, 29, 30) But the “other sheep” also benefit from the ransom even now. (John 10:16) They can receive God’s forgiveness so as to have a righteous standing before him as his friends. They have a large share in proclaiming “this good news of the kingdom” in this time of the end. (Matthew 24:14)
During this search, I also found some goofy tidbits:
*** w91 2/15 13 A Corresponding Ransom for All ***
13 Neither Adam nor Eve, however, benefit from the ransom. The Mosaic Law contained this principle: “You must take no ransom for the soul of a murderer who is deserving to die.” (Numbers 35:31) Adam was not deceived, so his sin was willful, deliberate. (1 Timothy 2:14)
What? Well, then since Eve wasn't deceived, it must logically follow that her sin was not willful, deliberate. Therefore, she MUST be under the benefit of the ransom!
*** w80 8/15 30 Do You Remember? ***
Yes, the new covenant mediated by Christ Jesus will end when it fulfills its purpose of producing 144,000 spiritual sons of God. This will be when all such anointed ones are resurrected to immortal heavenly life. However, people living on earth will benefit from the new covenant everlastingly. This is because the 144,000 will then share with Christ in his millennial kingdom over the earth and in administering his ransom sacrifice, as mankind is restored to perfection with eternal life in view.—7/1 p. 31.
Can anyone explain just HOW the 144K "administer" a "ransom sacrifice?" How does any one "administer" an act of someone croaking thousands of years after they've croaked?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Farkel
G'day and welcom Younger Tom,
Are you any relation to Oder Tom? He's visited here often and is you're from the same stock, we will be looking forward to your posts.
Come to think of it, we'll be looking forward to your posts, no matter who you're related to!
Our friend Farkel has given you some references. I could add that in 1979 there was also a QFR asking the very same question as you have asked. Check it out.
Cheers,
ozzie
However, if you're asking for reality instead of what the WT says...
Well, not being God I'm in no position to answer. Nonetheless, I'm with Flowerpetal in thinking that the Bible says that Jesus acts as a mediator for everyone. The WT arguments are very stretched and convoluted, as Farkel illustrated pretty well.
t.
So who mediates for the other sheep?
How can they pray through Jesus'name?
On what basis is their salvation?
And why would Jesus mislead the sympathetic evildoer who died alongside him?
Farkel>>*** w91 2/15 13 A Corresponding Ransom for All ***
13 Neither Adam nor Eve, however, benefit from the ransom. The Mosaic Law contained this principle: “You must take no ransom for the soul of a murderer who is deserving to die.” (Numbers 35:31) Adam was not deceived, so his sin was willful, deliberate. (1 Timothy 2:14)
What? Well, then since Eve wasn't deceived, it must logically follow that her sin was not willful, deliberate. Therefore, she MUST be under the benefit of the ransom!
------
Can the society really say Adam was a murderer even? As one friend kindly showed me, which has changed my thinking on this, Adam was new; so was Eve. They didn't know what sin was much less have experience with it.
Hi there YoungerTom and welcome to the forum.
It's nice to have a place where you may ask ANY question and no one will point the finger at you and MARK you because yout think outside the circle of the Watchtower.
Independant thinking is encouraged here rather than punished.
I hope you enjoy yourself here and soon find out who's who.
You'll be surpriced to learn that not everyone calling himself a JDub is a Christian and many Christians are not JDubs.
By their fruits you will know them.
Maybe we'll even see you at the next BBQ if you're in the area.
Stay tuned.
Hi Folks, Sorry to take so long to get back to you, it's been a busy week. Thank you all for your welcome. In answer to Ozzipost, OlderTom is my friend and spiritually older brother!!! Do we have to reinterpret the Bible? Just because Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant why would that proclude him from being other things also? Can't he do two or more things at once? Is the Organization as bad as the Catholics who pray through the saints, which is what the 144000 (whoever they may be) are? Hi Farkel, I'll have to think a bit more about your final statement, but in the quote from W59 7/15 440 "Israel's Tabernacle Shadows", it looks to me as though the W/T is up to it's old tricks of making two points and then quoting a scripture that only backs up one of them. Sorry Frenchy! I'm new here and I don't know everything that has been discussed before, if it is old hat to you I apologise.
G'day Younger Tom,
Very funny name - I'm sure real Tom would be very impressed ;) Any friend of Old Toms is a friend of mine. I hope you have a pleasant trip here and we meet over a snag or two. (snag = sausage to you foreigners ;)
As far as Jesus mediation goes, I hate to tell you this but the man disappeared nearly 2,000 years ago and hasn't been seen sinse. His foreskin may well be preserved in any one of 30 or so European church's though.
cheers, unclebruce
