A message from the UK re: 9/11

by Adam 20 Replies latest jw friends

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  Pathofthorns

  (contrary to the statements by Pathofthorns who apparently doens't watch the news)

  I do try to avoid news put out by American media where at all possible, but I doubt that is what you meant.

  Also, no one is saying that Americans deserved 9/11. I think many do feel though that there is a refusal of the American government to examine ways of making themselves less of a target by re-examining their foreign policies that seem to upset so many countries. There seems to be a mentality "let's kill everyone that hates us" instead of asking themselves "why are we so disliked on the world scene and how can we improve our world image?"

  I don't know if I would use the terms "class and concern for innocent people", but I will agree that the world is "lucky" that America has exercised some restraint. But more than that, America is also better off for their restraint. If world politics didn't restrain George Bush from going to war, he would have done so long ago. Exactly what ties have been proven between Iraq and 9/11 anyway?

  Path
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  seawolf

  Also, no one is saying that Americans deserved 9/11. I think many do feel though that there is a refusal of the American government to examine ways of making themselves less of a target by re-examining their foreign policies that seem to upset so many countries. There seems to be a mentality "let's kill everyone that hates us" instead of asking themselves "why are we so disliked on the world scene and how can we improve our world image?"

  Another way to word it would be to stop screwing around with other people's countries. Then the terrorists will go home.
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  Trauma_Hound

  Pardon my French but f*#k you in the ass with a broomstick and no vasaline. 9/11 is NOT our fault and the world is LUCKY that the U.S. has acted with more restraint, class, and concern for innocent people than the people who's fault 9/11 really is.

  Ah your as brilliant as a piece of coal. No-one deserved to be killed that day. However, there has been no proof, this has been caused by the iraqi government. Over a year later, we're still stuck in afganistan. Let me pose this question, if we say go and fight this war on terror, so we put troops, here, put troops there, attack iraq, more troops there. Since terror is worldwide. Who's going to be protecting our ass, if all our troops are spread so thin?
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  Adam

  Pathofthorns: Any outlet you get your news thru will show that America has gone thru the proper UN channels and is abiding by the decisions made by the UN. Sure we are pushing for our agenda but so is every other country. You can't point the finger at us there. I don't believe I've read on this thread where anyone has said that the US deserves 9/11 and I have not accused anyone of that. A few comments seem to say that 9/11 is our fault, which I think is horseshit and pisses me off. That's like if I killed one of your parents and then people said it was not my fault but YOUR fault for disagreeing with me and doing it publicly on this board. My "class and concern" comment was made in comparing the US to the perpetrators of 9/11. My point was that if we had the same level of class and concern as those people, the whole Middle East would be a nuclear wasteland right now, your definitions of the terms do not come into it. You say that America is better off for our restraint, and I agree with you. As frustrating as it may be to check our anger, I think that going thru the time-consuming process of UN discussion and compliance lends credibility to the authority of the UN, and I believe that is a good thing. It also keeps us from acting in the heat of the moment, which is never wise. I can not now recal all the information that has come up regarding the ties between the current government of Iraq and Al Queda, but from what I've read and heard the ties are there. Pardon my lack of research for particular quotes.

  Seawolf, do you think that an American policy of isolationism would have benifitted the world during WWI and WWII? I agree that there have been times when America should just have let things be in other countries and that we often get our hands dirty where they have no business being in the first place. There needs to be found a happy medium between isolationism and meddling. That debate has been going on for over a hundred years in many countries besides America. If you have the answer, please let the rest of the world know.

  Another point, Bin Laden is pissed that we have troops in Saudi Arabia, the Saudi's are our allies and asked us to keep troops there after the Gulf War. Should Bin Laden have the authority to alter US foreign policy to one of abandoning our allies?
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  Pathofthorns

  Adam, I agree for the most part with your last comments to me. Going through the UN was a wise move for the US and I hope they continue to respect that arrangement.

  There needs to be found a happy medium between isolationism and meddling.

  I also agree with this statement. America must balance their global interests and "meddling" with the increased risk to Americans at home and around the world from possible backlashes. Like I said earlier, hopefully 9/11 will help them pay more attention to getting that delicate balance right.

  Path
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  Simon

  Any Americans reading may not be aware but the Mirror is a pretty trashy 'newspaper' (and I use the term loosly) over here. Many of our papers are just full of gossip, naked pictures and sensationalism and this is one of the worst.

  It's had it's own scandals over the years - as many pensioners who's money it stole will tell you.

  Bottom line? I wouldn't quote from the paper anytime soon as an authority on anything.

  Edited by - Simon on 4 December 2002 17:3:12
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  Trauma_Hound

  the whole Middle East would be a nuclear wasteland right now

  The hiway of death in Iraq, is currently such a wasteland, with all the depleted uranium used on the tanks. It was interesting the other day I watched on some station a guy showing pictures of US Soldiers, and contractors, mopping up friendly fire tanks, he pointed out all the people were dead in the picture from cancer, and other various diseases, associated with uranium poisening, because when they first started mopping them up, they didn't make them wear resperators, and they inhaled the dust. Also children that have been playing around the contamination fields have died also. Also babys being born with sevier birth defects, like two heads, cancer, born with out skin, some kinds of things that happened after hiroshima, except we didn't drop any nukes, just shot at tanks with depleted uranium, which vaporizes into powder, that easily can become a cloud.
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  outoftheorg

  Now that you have all that about finding a happy medium between isolation and meddling by the US and UK and Canada etc. All cleared up. You need to get with Pakistan-Egypt-India-Iran-Saudi-Palistine-Israel-Iraq-Russia-China-N Korea-S Korea ad infinitim and get them all to quit meddling in the affairs and lives of others.

  Then maybe they won't launch attacks against US civilians or other countries civilians in the future and get the US or other countries all pissed off and retaliating. As they should.

  Outoftheorg
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  Adam

  Path, that crucial ballance has been an issue for every country throughout history that has 

  ever been able to exert power beyond it's own borders. Your country coped with it and 

  continues to do so, it's not just a current American issue. There are many ways to learn how to 

  better achieve that ballance, but psycopathic, extremist, murderers are not people to 

  learn lessons from. The only lesson to be learned from 9/11 is that if you ignore a 

  problem like terrorism it will come back to bite you in the ass. Hopefully we will learn 

  that lesson.

  Just realized, I know pleasuredome is from across the pond, but I don't know where you're from.

  If you're American, ignore the "your country" comment and insert "Great Britan.

  Edited by - adam on 4 December 2002 17:21:11

  Edited by - Adam on 4 December 2002 17:27:15
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  Adam

  Outoftheorg, obviously you don't understand how the world works. You are NOT supposed to focus any attention on the opressive governments or human rights violations of other countries. No, you are supposed to focus all of your attention on America, pick it apart, examine it with a microscope, and then blow any imperfections you can find way the hell out of proportion. Mentioning the gross flaws of other countries is strictly prohibited. Didn't you get the memo?