I ventured to the local hall here last week and when time to discuss the watchtower a guy made a comment that the wt only believes that jesus became king in 1914.Now I have read the bible and do have an interest in what it says despite my handle on this site and I have noticed that the apostles made clear that christ was king of heaven and earth in their day at least until the last apostle died .This just looks like typical crap that would only lead me to further arguement with them and in the end being demonized .Anyone else with thoughts on the subject ??
JW's deny jesus as being king before 1914
by heathen 32 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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rebel
Heathen,
The scriptures I find interesting on this subject are Matt 16:28 where Jesus says some present would not die before they saw Jesus in his kingdom, and Matt 28:18 where Jesus says he has been given all authority in heaven and earth - he was talking about the present just after he had been resurrected. Also, 1 Cor 15:25 says Christ must rule as king until all his enemies are put under his feet, indicating he will be ruling amongst his enemies. I get a bit mixed up with scriptures sometimes, but the way I look at it is, JWs teach Jesus millenium reign will begin after Armageddon - or do they? If Jesus started reigning in 1914, then by 2014, he (and those resurrected in 1914) will have been reigning for 100 years - does that mean there is only 900 years left to reign from that date? Or have I got it all wrong?
xxR
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heathen
Rebel- I know what you are talking about . The WT explains that the scripture about those not dying until they see jesus glorified in his kingdom is related to the passage where jesus is transfigured and the appearance of elijah and moses before some of the apostles takes place.Mark 9:2-4. That is a bit confusing as to when the 1000 year reign would start that is correct from what I've seen the WT teaches that the reign starts after armaggedon but we are living in a time of his invisible pressence as far as the anointed class it is arguementitive as to whether they have taken their possition as co rulers at this time .REV-6:9-11 suggests that they don't until the last of the remnant is slaughterd on account of the preaching work. I have also heard the WT explaination of this as meaning they only die as far as being part of the world but this makes no sence to me .
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KAYTEE
Carl Olaf Jonnson's book - Gentiles Times Revisited, gives us something to think about with regards to 1914 as being a pivotal date for prophecy.
If 607bce and the calculation of 2520 days, is not correct, then Jesus reign may not have started in 1914.
As has been said, by accepting 1914 as the start of the millenium rule of Christ, we are "eating" into this 1000 years. The further we go back the more problems this causes with the 1000 years. Russell's comment regarding Jesus taking up his kingship, went back even further,
KT
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rebel
So if Jesus rules amongst his enemies, he isn't ruling in a beautiful, paradisaic kingdom, at least not at the beginning. But I am sure I have been taught that when he reigns, death will be done away with and sickness will be a thing of the past. How can it be a time of peace if he is ruling amongst his enemies? I am really confused now. There is so much going on in my head that I have kept in for years and now it is all a bit jumbled.
xxR
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heathen
My arguement is more about if jesus was considered the ruler of heaven and earth prior to the end of the gentile times such as what philippians says at 2:9-11 and various other places.Rebel - The Wt teaches that we are in the time of the conclusion of this system of things not that jesus has taken control of world affairs.Also if I remember correctly they consider being in the org. as some sort of spirtual paradise.
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blondie
Actually, from 1877 to 1943, the Bible Students then subsequently Jehovah's Witnesses, taught that Jesus' presence began in 1874 C.E.
August 15, 1974 Watchtower pages 506-7 No Spiritual "Energy Crisis" for Discreet Ones
In 1877, Russell joined Nelson H. Barbour in publishing the book Three Worlds, and the Harvest of This World. It indicated that the end of the Gentile Times in 1914 would be preceded by a forty-year period to open with a three-and-a-half-year harvest beginning in 1874 C.E. According to Bible chronology thereafter adopted, it was understood that 6,000 years of mans existence on earth ended in 1872, whereas six millenniums of human sin concluded and the seventh millennium began in 1874. Christs presence was thought to have begun in October 1874 , at the start of the great antitypical Jubilee.Lev. chap. 25; Rev. 20:4.From that understanding, it was thought that the "chaste virgin" class began going forth to meet the Bridegroom in 1874. (2 Cor. 11:2) Hence, when C. T. Russell began publishing a new religious magazine in July 1879, it was called "Zions Watch Tower and Herald of Christs Presence." It was heralding Christs presence as having begun in 1874. This invisible presence was expected to continue until the Gentile Times ended in 1914, when the Gentile nations would be destroyed and the remnant of the "chaste virgin" class would be glorified with their Bridegroom in heaven by death and resurrection to live in the spirit. (1 Cor. 15:42-44) Thus would the "discreet virgin" class enter through the door into the wedding.
In 1943 the Watch Tower Societys book "The Truth Shall Make You Free " did away with the nonexistent extra 100 years in the period of the Judges and placed the end of 6,000 years of mans existence in the 1970s. It also fixed the beginning of Christs presence, not in 1874, but in 1914 C.E. -
onacruse
As I recall, the WTS gets around any reference to Jesus as "being" a king before 1914 by saying that he was only ruling as "king" over the Christian congregation (I'm thinking here of Colossians 1:13). But since the congregation is a spiritual Eden, Christ is indeed ruling over a figurative paradise.
Ah, the tangled webs they weave.
blondie, perhaps you can find a reference to see if my memory is correct?
Craig
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heathen
The guy at the meeting simply stated that the WT does not believe that jesus was ever a king before 1914 (I guess this is the current light from the WT) and he was not publically corrected in his thinking but was allowed to continue to believe this as part of WT doctrine .Now I am looking at Ephesians 1:19-23 which undoubtedly speaks of jesus as being the highes authority in heaven and earth , even mentioning this system as well as the next.
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rebel
Well the scripture in 1 Cor 15:25 definitely says that Jesus must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. That means he is ruling when the world is still full of his enemies - like now. Also, death is called the last enemy, so he must be ruling even until death is put out of the way, I am not sure if I have got this right - but I know I was told that, when Jesus begins his kingdom rule, it will result in blessings and peace for mankind. How can that be if he rules amongst his enemies? Plus, we still have the extra 100 years tagged onto his reign if it started in 1914 - whether he is ruling over the heavens only or both the heavens and earth, he is still ruling.
Another thing, if 144,000 are to rule for 1000 years as kings and priests, aren't the ones resurrected in 1914 going to rule for longer than the ones who are still on the earth today as the anointed remnant? That means, some reign for 1000 years, some for 900 or whatever - very confusing!
xxR