What makes us Human?

by donkey 11 Replies latest jw friends

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  donkey

  The thoughts in this post are generated from work done by by Carl Sagan. Although I am not quoting him the core ideas and logic were his and I am recalling them from memory.

  Let's start with murder. We cannot be convicted for murdering a chimpanzee even though the Chimpanzee has a DNA matching 99.6% of ours. No we can only be convicted for murder for killing another Human. So the definition of "what makes us human" is fitting here.

  Everyone of us began from a dot. At the time of conception we were no larger than the period at the end of this sentence. Another fact to note is that everyone of us is made up of other living organisms (yes we are component structures as modern genetic science can corroborate). Is is murder to kill one of the component structures? Since many of the component structures (DNA sub-strands) are found in other living mamals then if we answer yes we would be guilty of muder when we as humans kill memers of the other species. So back to the dot. A chimpanzee is more complex than the conceived egg, more intelligent, has more feelings, more emotions, can live by itself, can feed itself, can communicate, can think for itself. Is it morally wrong to kill the dot but OK to kill the chimpanzee? Does this seem inconsistent?

  At what point do we become humans? This question needs to be answered by answering the question: What makes us human.

  Do not quote me any any scriptures. Let's use logic and facts not myth.

  An ASS is not really trying to make a monkey out of you.
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  Satanus

  An interesting topic. There is no denying that physically, we are animal. The catholic church has the belief that a soul (spirit) enters the developing fetus at some point during it's gestation. Some books written by regression hypnotherapists agree w this. In those books, they say that the higher spirit which enters, meshes w and subordinates the animal life (being?) that is there already. They say that the time in the fetus's development where this happens, when the higher spirit remains totally in the fetus varies, sometimes this can be just before birth. If this is true, then 'human' is a mixture of the two natures: physical and spiritual. It explains the constant tension that most humans live in, the struggle between the two natures towards attaining a balance.

  SS
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  donkey

  The only difference mentally or physically which we are superior to animals is because we are able to "think as humans".

  Should the question be reclassified as "When does a person develop the ability to think?"
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  heathen

  IMO- Life begins at conception .What makes us human is the fact that we have a conscience and the ability to reason ,animals can only act by instinct and cannot determine a right from a wrong course of action to take.As far as the spiritual part the catholic church can't prove their statement .Jesus did say in order to be saved you must be born again of the spirit.
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  donkey

  IMO- Life begins at conception .What makes us human is the fact that we have a conscience and the ability to reason ,animals can only act by instinct and cannot determine a right from a wrong course of action to take.

  See the issue?

  If being human means we have a conscience and the ability to reason then we have to accept that a fetus is NOT human. A Fetus (even if it is biologically alive) cannot reason - it cannot think. And since we can only be convicted of murder for murdering a HUMAN we need to define what that means. I cannot be convicted of murder for killing a dot. This is a scientific argument not a religious one - or a legal one if you prefer it that way. Either way religion has no say.

  No one is arguing here when life begins, rather at what point does a fetus become a human....there is a difference.

  Edited by - donkey on 8 December 2002 20:58:58
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  avishai

  There is a story called "Jerry was a man" by Robert Heinlein that addresses exactly this question.
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  onacruse

  Yes, a VERY interesting topic. If we stick only to what we can demonstrate (which immediately rules out the any arguments about possessing a "soul" or "spirit"), then maybe we are limited to a behavioral differentiation? For example:

  "Man is the only animal that laughs and weeps; for he is the only animal that is struck with the difference between what things are and what they ought to be."
  William Hazlitt

  If so, then we would define humanity as beginning when those traits began to show themselves. But that pushes the limit well beyond the actual time of birth.

  This requires more thought.

  Craig
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  donkey

  For the record - at the time of writing this I lean towards being anti-abortion because thats how I FEEL.

  Reading Sagan's essay earlier today made me think so now I am trying but it is really tough when one is a dumb donkey!!
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  heathen

  I would add that since we are aware and conscious as to there being a human being in their earlier developing stages that any interference with the natural order could be and should be constituted as murder.The US constitution even guarantees the right to life ,liberty and persuit of happiness.It does however seem to involve a sense of morality .I can't help but wonder how many exeptional people had their life cut off before they even had a chance.
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  donkey

  I would add that since we are aware and conscious as to there being a human being in their earlier developing stages that any interference with the natural order could be and should be constituted as murder

  The chimpanzee is conscious and aware too.

  The only difference between a human and a chimp 0.4% genetics and the ability to think as humans do. The fetus cannot think.