Interesting discussion with some JWs

by Nathan 12 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Nathan
    Nathan

    I had some JWs visit me today and meet for the first time. The time has left me feeling sad and confused. I learnt some interesting things about these two individuals.

    Firstly, the man launched straight into his 'good news'. (I thought "Pleased to meet you too.") So I stopped him and decided to ask him to tell me a little bit about himself and his wife (also there). I wanted to get to know these people, not just hear a sales pitch. After one or two sentences he was straight back into discussing prophecy, end times and how bad this world is. ("OK let's stay impersonal then. Dissappointing but I can live with this.")

    I listened and within 15 seconds of talking he had managed to disagree with at least 10 doctrines of Christianity, after listening and listening, finally when he caught some air I asked him to explain where in the Bible one of these doctrines had come from. He received great delight rattling of a verse quickly and moving back into the big picture once again. Change of tack. I challenged him that Jesus is not the archangel Michael because... and to told him the verses and refuted his evidence. He changed the topic, now about the earthly inheritance, and I refuted this from scripture, then the two classes, and 144000 etc. Everytime he came to a dead end he would either change the subject or his wife came in and said "It really doesn't matter. As long as you are in the right organisation and you have the right fruit, which no other religious organisation has."

    I brought up about the doctrinal changes that had occured in the century, and they dismissed these by saying "At least we are trying and the light is getting brighter." I highlighted that this does not account for contradictions and how what they are teaching today might be heresy tomorrow. That did not seem to matter. Once again they reinforced that doctrine was not so important but what really matters is they do not kill other Christians but love each other. So I learned that what one believes is not so important but as long as they love God and love each other (by never killing another even in war) - that's the main criteria. Interesting. There must be hope now for all religions as long as they are committed pasivists.

    I learned also that all of Christianity tolerates abortion and immorality and JWs don't. It's also the Christians doing the killing in the wars (I wondered who I had killed before, and then I even wondered how many my wife had killed). Christendom is also behind bombing Iraq and all the innocent people. (and I always thought it was the politicians - what is my pastor keeping from me). No politians are Christians but only give lip-service. (I'd love to know where they get their mind reading tools from.) And one 'fact' that blew me out of the water was that 95% of all Christianity teach that something apocolyptic happened in 1914. (I must have only come into contact with only the other 5% - where have I been all these years.) All the Christians are corrupt (she must have been meaning everybody else because as she left she said to myself and my wife that we had a good heart and therefore OK - does this mean God will save me even if I don't convert - cool)

    So that is why I am sad. Changing the rules of the argument when 'loosing', black and white thinking, huge generalisations, and fabricating reality - all to bolster faith in their organisation regardless of what it contradicted in reality or in contrary scriptural evidence. I hope they come back. I would like to study the Scriptures with them and let God speak to all of us (and hopefully bypass our religious tradition lenses). Somehow I don't have a lot of confidence they will return. I am praying God to will draw them to Himself.

    Nathan

  • jurs
    jurs

    Nathan

    I see that you are a newbie. Welcome!!! You said that it is a fact that 95 % of christianity teach something apocolyptic happened in 1914. I don't think so...... Where did you get that fact?

    Why in God's name ( excuse the pun) do you want the JW's to come back to study?????????????????? I couldn't quite tell from your post if you are interested in the organization because you agree with the beliefs or if you want to study to help change the JW's mind.

    I started studying with JW's around 10 years ago. I completely regret it. There is so much more to the organization than meets the eye. Stick around and you'll learn alot!!!!

    Again welcome.

    jurs

  • Beans
    Beans

    Welcome, and enjoy all the info you can research here!

    Beans

    http://Quotes.JehovahsWitnesses.com

  • meadow77
    meadow77

    Good post and welcome

  • hippikon
    hippikon

    Ok So I have a new line for my wife

    I love you darling and to prove it I'm not going to kill you.

    Hmmmm Don't think it will work do you?

    Edited by - hippikon on 14 December 2002 7:28:0

  • SYN
    SYN

    Nice post! Damn, if this is how damning you can be with just one post, just wait until you hit Emperor

    I brought up about the doctrinal changes that had occured in the century, and they dismissed these by saying "At least we are trying and the light is getting brighter." I highlighted that this does not account for contradictions and how what they are teaching today might be heresy tomorrow. That did not seem to matter. Once again they reinforced that doctrine was not so important but what really matters is they do not kill other Christians but love each other. So I learned that what one believes is not so important but as long as they love God and love each other (by never killing another even in war) - that's the main criteria.

    Which also coincidentally makes the ORGANIZATION meaningless! Nice trap you set for them there

  • KAYTEE
    KAYTEE

    Nathan,

    Welcome - a very good introductory post, nice to hear your comments, you appear not to be an ex-JW ? We look forward to further posts from you - always good to listen to other viewpoints, (untarnished by the Organisation)

    KT

  • twinkletoes
    twinkletoes

    Welcome Nathan

    Enjoyed your comments, please keep us informed of any further discussions with the JWs.

    Twink

  • Room 215
    Room 215

    Nathan, welcome aboard,

    I think your experience demonstrates how reliant the WTBTS is on ignorance in order to make progress among the public; ignorance on the part of the householder, but also ignorance on the part of the average JW about his organization's history. Once the latter encounter someone with some background knowledge of JWs at the door, they realize that they're in over their head and seek to beat a hasty retreat or even panic.

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    "As long as you are in the right organisation and you have the right fruit, which no other religious organisation has."

    Many other organizations have the same fruit as the JW's

    1. Use of Gods name (The Mormons come to your door and talk about Jehovah)
    2. Proclaim Kingdom message (The Mormons also do this)
    3. No part of this world . . no politics. .(World-Wide Church of God doesn't)
    4. Love amonst themselves . . no wars . . (World-Wide Church of God )

    "I brought up about the doctrinal changes that had occured in the century, and they dismissed these by saying "At least we are trying and the light is getting brighter." I highlighted that this does not account for contradictions and how what they are teaching today might be heresy tomorrow. That did not seem to matter. Once again they reinforced that doctrine was not so important but what really matters is they do not kill other Christians but love each other. So I learned that what one believes is not so important but as long as they love God and love each other (by never killing another even in war) - that's the main criteria. Interesting. There must be hope now for all religions as long as they are committed pasivists."

    So the World-Wide Church of God, and the many other groups and individual Christians who do not participate in war must be the true faith also?

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