Watchtower Society responds to Diane Wilson

by SYN 12 Replies latest social humour

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  SYN

  Another handy link stolen from JWZONE, which, needless to say, put a ridiculous pro-Dub spin on it...

  And if Armageddon is close, then paradise -- relief from sickness, disease and suffering -- is close. So it's not to scare someone. It's good news, that relief is coming. At times, we may have gotten a little anxious. And perhaps in our enthusiasm, we spoke of the possibility that it could come in a particular time period. But we never gave an exact date. We teach what Jesus spoke: ``No man knows the day or the hour.''

  BS! BS! BS! There are FAR too many threads here which show VERY damning evidence, from their OWN MOUTHS, that they have (more than once) predicted that the Big A would come in a certain year!

  Any time a woman is sexually assaulted, we view it as a horrible crime. And we are there -- the elders, the congregation -- to support that person. We handle it with the utmost compassion.

  Yeah, RIGHT! By "utmost compassion" they mean "Did you wear a thong? If you did, it's YOUR fault!, wench!"

  Again, our governing body has never claimed that our organization is inspired or infallible. Instead they, our governing body, study the Bible diligently and through prayer they make a request for his Holy Spirit to direct them and be upon them. And with his help, they come to decisions. So we believe this to be the channel that God is using today. But our governing body has said that it is not inspired or infallible.

  Uh-uh. Get your story straight, Tower. Either you ARE or you ARE NOT. DECIDE.

  A person ultimately has the right to choose his friends. However, we've always encouraged members to use the Bible as a guide. Proverbs 13:20 says, ``He that is walking with wise persons will become wise. But he that is having dealings with the stupid ones will fare badly.'' Scripture such as that shows the wisdom of associating with a people who base their lives on God's standards.

  So, effectively, the only APPROVED friends are Dubs. Lying by omission is still LYING.

  *grrrrrrr*
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  SYN

  Whoops, put this in the wrong forum. Could a mod please stick it in a more appropriate forum, such as "DRIVEL"? Thanks.
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  waiting

  I have a hard time understanding who "we" is. Is it a man? A woman? An elder? Makes a big difference in viewpoint.

  I'm about 150 pages into Wilson's book. She's the same age as I am, came into The Truth same year, and we both had a young child that we were frightened that Jehovah would kill at Armageddon if we didn't get baptised in time.

  Her book isn't hard to read or understand ---- but it IS told from a woman's perspective. The one, continuing, gripe (amongst others) that I have with my xjw husband is that he doesn't truly understand the power structure within the WTBTS.

  Women have no power. Period. This cannot be stressed enough. Women are second class - and God designed it that way. Period. Women accepted that, either by being raised in the Org., or by slowly giving away our right to being equal - to any man who demanded it. And all JW men demand that women be lower than them - it's God's Decision.

  As JT said, "The only thing lower in the congregation than a woman, is a black woman." Insert different ethnic background - but the low woman stays constant.

  Well, Wilson writes about that as a woman, wife, mother, & sister. I understand her completely. Sometimes it's hard to read, because it's so damned true.

  If the writer of your quotes is a man.....he just doesn't understand. If he's an elder.......the damned fool hasn't a clue. If it's a woman - well, she won't admit it, but she's had similiar experiences to Wilson. All women in The Truth have these experiences - because we were all Second Class by God's Choice.

  Diane Wilson's book is The Truth about what it's like to be a woman in Jehovah's Witnesses. But most of it applies to men also.

  waiting
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  SYN

  Bleh. Seems the Zoners have added some comments - it's pretty funny watching them stumble about in the dark the way they do sometimes, but then eventually you begin to feel sorry for them...good points Waiting, couldn't agree more!
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  Gopher

  David Semonian, the Watchtower spokesman, does what we all know the Watchtower organization so well for: glossing over the facts!! He does EVERYTHING in his slick wording to try to make it appear Jehovah's Witnesses are God's channel and that they couldn't be doing anything better!

  But his answers are very deceiving!! Take note.

  Q: Has the Watchtower zigzagged on doctrine?

  David Semonian says: "From time to time we will make adjustments. We humbly do that."

  Reality: Humble? My foot. When was the last time they humbly apologized for teaching an erroneous doctrine, now referred to as "old light"? With almost every 180-degree turn (or "adjustment", as they call it), they blame the rank-and-file JW's for believing what was previously taught. Take the 1975 fiasco for instance. They made it seem that those who sold their homes and their insurance policies and went all out in the pioneer work with no plans for the future after 1975 were running ahead of the organization. Nothing could be further from the truth! I was around then, and I remember they kept emphasizing that you should use the "remaining months" in this system wisely. Now that it is 2002, I guess that would be about 326 "remaining months" since October 1975.

  Q: How is rape viewed?

  David Semonian says: "The congregation... support(s) that person. We handle it with the utmost compassion."

  Reality: Ask any of the silent lambs how much compassion they felt. The one I talked to (who is currently suing the Society, the local Minnesota congregation and her molestor) when she brought forward the facts (as will be made clear in the trial) was told she was lying and that she "misunderstood" the intentions of her molestor. She was, in essence, put on trial by the elders and made to feel the pressure to constantly relive the series of attacks in her mind while being opposed by the local congregation. Also look at the case of Erica Rodriguez, who appeared on Dateline NBC earlier this year. Dateline only reported the facts (proved in a court of law) and how the local congregation responded to them, as well as the Society's documented "leave things to Jehovah" / do nothing approach. Erica's molestor was supported by the entire congregation in Erica's original home state of Washington (USA). This is shocking behavior by Jehovah's Witnesses, yet they think it's quite normal.

  Q: What is "disfellowshipping"?

  David Semonian says: "The Bible directs that they receive a readjustment....If the person blatantly refuses to be helped, even after several meetings, the Bible says to ... quit mixing with them."

  Reality: The Bible does not direct a committee of three men to try to judge what's in the heart of a congregation member. It does not direct "kicking them out" or "kicking them to the curb" when you tire of helping them. When a person is at his/her weakest, that's often the point where they are JUDGED and not HELPED. While no doubt there are some JW elders who truly do care about people and want to help them with a problem, way too often the meetings with elders are a rush to conclusions and a rush to judgment. I wish it weren't so, but it's what I've experienced personally and heard from others.

  Also Semonian quotes the scripture "Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that..." does x, y and z activities or sins. But if an individual DA's themself, choosing to leave -- they're not trying to be "called a brother". So clearly the scripture would not apply to individuals who choose on their own to leave, or those who are DA'd in a "de facto" manner because they perform an activity that JW's judge against, such as involvement in politics or the military or accepting a blood transfusion. So if the congregation announces a person is no longer a JW due to disassociation, then the "quit mixing in company" scripture CLEARLY does not apply to them. Neither does it apply to DF'd individuals who are no longer making an attempt to rejoin the JW's.

  The JW judgment machine is meant to control people and in doing so it crushes the human spirit.

  But WT puppets like JR Brown and Dave Semonian will never ever come close to admitting that truth. They are either blind or wicked.

  Edited by - Gopher on 16 December 2002 9:32:25
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  COMF

  And perhaps in our enthusiasm, we spoke of the possibility that it could come in a particular time period.

  Waddiamean, "perhaps"? Did you, or didn't you?
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  Room 215

  Procedurally, does anyone who reads this sort of thing wonder why the WT always responds idirectly to criticism and never opts to debate their opponent face-to-face in open forum? I know the argument, that Jesus remained silent before ridiculers, but it's specious; what about his controftations with the Pharisees and Saducees? Or Russell's and Rutherford's debates in the early days?
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  GermanXJW

  Q: How is rape viewed?

  David Semonian says: "The congregation... support(s) that person. We handle it with the utmost compassion."

  I think the QfR in w2003 2/1 is a result from Diane Wilson's book.

  It says that a threatened woman has to scream according to the Bible but that there are reasons when a woman cannot scream. To be "paralyzed by fear" is explicitly mentioned.

  This should be a matter between a woman and her Creator and the congregation should support her.
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  Cicatrix

  I learned a lot about the methodology of communication at school. The reason why they can't/won't address this issue from the point of the victims could have alot to do with paradigms. Paradigms are systems of rules that we choose to live by. They are derived from our own personal experience and influence from others. Paradigm paralysis is when a person literally cannot see an issue from any other point of view than their own. Let's face it, although there are exceptions, being a male member of the congregation is an extreme power trip. I cannot count the times I was reminded about "Jehovah's headship arrangement" by male members of the congregation. After a fews years of puzzlement as to why I was being lectured about this when I was such a compliant little doormat, I started countering with "Yes, I'm very well aware what the Bible says about being in subjection, and I will be happy to respect and follow any man who leads his family and the congregation in the manner that Jesus commanded men to,"being fully aware that under that directive,I had no obligation to follow any man who was in any way bringing harm to a woman, a child, or another man. They really resented me pointing out their responsibilities to them (even the younger males), especially those who were particularly lacking in that area:)

  As far as abuse being tolerated, if you think about their paradigm--that women are the property of men (remember all that "husbandly owner"stuff? Then it makes it that much the easier to depersonalize the horrific acts that have been committed against women. What gets your blood pumping more, hearing that your child got hurt, or hearing that your car got mangled in an accident? When women are seen as property, their needs can take second place to preserving the so-called pristine image of the organization.

  The WT responds indirectly to criticism for the same reasons that politicians do-it's easier to cover up lapses in judgement and save face. It's the same reason why they use the word "we" constantly, instead of applying names individually. While they rarely share commendation, they are quick to point fingers at the congregation members in an effort to preserve the image of the WT.
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  jack2

  Good post, and Gopher, you broke it down very succintly with some very good points made. Cicatrix, you make some very good points as well. Very interesting thread.