Hi onthego aka Nancee Park.
When will you figure out that just because one person accuses Ted of rape, does not prove anything. Nor does the fact that he does not deny it prove anything. Besides, how do you know he has not denied it?
Cardinal B Law's Example For Gov Body's T Jarasz
by onthego 15 Replies latest jw friends
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kelsey007
If there is one thng that I have learned from the jw experience and enjoy about the freedoms I now have is that I do have the right to question and draw my own conclusions- just because a Bill Bowen says it it so has no greater impact on my beliefs than when the GB says it is so. I question and question and quesiton then in a very balanced way I draw my conclusions based upon the best factual basis possible- No I do not just bite the apple of Bill Bowen or a Pat Garza just because they say it is so- show me some facts- prove to me it is so- that is what the courts will want and that is what I want to see- If it is true let us go get them- but prove it to me before I just jump in and follow!
Am I wrong for asking these questions? No- Allegations were brought and I was asked to believe- all I am asking for is validation of the allegations- Give me something- Show me something- I need a lot more than Bill Bowen quotes on this thank you very much.....
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Nathan Natas
Hi again Kelsey007,
I can appreciate anyone's desire for balance and reason in their approach to such serious issues. This issue may be one in which we will never know the whole story simply because neither side is being very forthcoming. Ted Jaracz has not made any statement addressing Pat's accusations, and it is unlikely that Pat will live long enough to pursue this matter; she has ovarian cancer, I have been told.
Let me ask you something to help you get an idea of my perspective on this: give me an example of any instance in which the leadership of the Watchtower has been straightfoward and morally upright.
The UN?
The Mexico/Malawi scandal?
Their flip-flopping and weasel wording on the blood issue?
Their sucking up to politcal and "false" (i.e., Jewish and Christian) Holocaust Memorials so that they can share any financial benefits?
Their history as a 100% unreliable prophetic organization?
In other words, on what basis are you willing to trust them?
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kelsey007
Nathan- no argument on those subjects. I however know the law and how the courts function. The GB will never be held liable based on the credibility of the things you listed. The courts could not care less whether the WT joind the UN or not. These are serious criminal charges. If they are true let us go after them. If this is unprovable charges let us get on to something that can be validated. I was robbed once, I am sure that I know who took my sound system. But I cant prove it. And what "I" believe and "know" is basically worthless info. Because I cannot validate it. Let us please move on to something that can bite in a serious way. Hanging on to the things that we cant prove only makes the movement look weak. That is my point. If ya got something- bring it to the table and let us being them down!
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Nathan Natas
I can see your point, Kelsey007, but you must realize that YOU are not bound by the same requirements as a court of law - YOU can choose to look at the failures I've listed and conclude that the WTS is not to be trusted.
As for moving on to things that may be more easily provable - I think that as a community we can look at new issues as they are uncovered AND we can keep history alive. I've watched too many "Forensic Files"-type programs, perhaps, but I love most the stories of the "Cold Case Detectives" who come in with new technology to solve cases that are decades old. In addition to new forensic tools, sometimes a witness will have a major change of heart and decide to step forward with what they know. Pat Garza told us that there were two boys present during her experience with Ted Jaracz. I believe (and I may be wrong, but that hasn't happened yet ) that Pat knows who these two witnesses are. I do not know if she has been in contact with either or both of them. Personally I hope that someday soon both of them will come to understand that they can serve "The Truth" best by testifying about what they witnessed.
The Watchtower Society has a HISTORY of lies and deceit. That history is best kept alive, not forgotten. NEVER let them off the hook they've forged with their own words and hypocritical deeds.
Edited by - Nathan Natas on 15 December 2002 2:40:28
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kelsey007
Nathan- clearly I saw many things and chose to not trust the WT or man in general a long time back. I am considered apostate by the WT and havent set foot in a KH in years. As I said- just because of that does not mean that I bite into every allegation thrown at the WT. That would be insane behaviour. Once a man has been convicted of a theft does not mean that he is guilty of every crime that his enemies would pin on him. I am not into slinging mud just for the sake of ruining reputations. Yes the WT has proven what they are. False prophets, flip flop on issues, man of the things you listed earlier. The things that I know of for a certain- have seen for a fact- those things I will share as fact. I will warn others of these acts. But to throw out wild accusations that are unsubstantuated - I do not like that. That makes me somewhat dishonest- just like the ones I am accusing. I have painted a picture to the world that has many believing that the accusations are true and all along I know that I have no solid proof- only one persons statement- I have labeled someone something that may not be factual- Nathan I cannot beleive that when you think of this that you would really want to participate in such. Is ones hate for the WT so strong that one feels justified in missleading others into believing something is a fact when it has not been proven as factual?
CLearly I do not know if the allegations are true or not. When I look at all available facts and the information that is available about the person who made the accusation I would not be quick to spread the story. Likewise if I were this Jerasz guy and looked at everything I would not be quick to make a public statement to such charges as lodged against me by one such individual.
But more important to me than all that for my own sake I would not spread such information- such strong allegations wihtout much more proof available. If, after spreading this story around the world as if it were fact, it is found to be untrue, it will damage the credibility of the other viable cases against the WT.
I noted that the Danish TV show transcripts headlined a case of a lady who claimed that her father not only abused her but got her pregnant. The police were involved but no case was ever brought. IMHO- that story- as strong a story as it made would not have been my choice of a headline story. The issue as I see it is the two-witness rule within the WT. ANd the failure to report to authorities. Until it is proven that the WT has violated the law I do not see where the impact will be. I do not see the WT running for cover as the catholics are.
Edited by - kelsey007 on 15 December 2002 13:32:25