JW's and the YMCA

by artful 12 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • artful
    artful

    My father and mother (both loyal JWs and in their 70s) have recently joined a local YMCA for it's fitness facility. It seems to me that the WTS does not look favorably on this organization, possibly to the point of prohibiting JWs from joining it.

    I have searched for information online but to no avail. Since my computer is a Mac, I don't have access to search the WTS CD archive for any references to the YMCA. I'm sure there were some articles about it in the Watchtower (possibly from the '70s).

    I don't want to curb my parents enthusiasm in their new found fitness endeavors, and I'm certainly not interested in this because I really care about the WTS position on the YMCA. Rather, if there is any prohibition of YMCA membership, I would like to suggest to my parents that they avoid any discussions about this to other JW's who may put them off.

    On the other hand, if there is no WTS prohibition then I would like to instruct my parents this, and suggest that they could cheerfully tell any JW "friends" where to stick their comments!!

    Cheers and thanks for sharing your resources!
    Artful

  • NameWithheld
    NameWithheld

    This really falls under the 'local discretion' catagory - but they normally apply the 'get out of babylon the great' theory to YMCA. Since it's a church backed org, most JWs and elders will take issue to joining it. They will pull out WT's that say words to the effect that joining another religious group qutomatically dis-associates a person. If other JWs find out, they could be 'counseled' to drop so as to not 'stumble' weaker JWs. Doubtful they would do more than 'suggest' they quit, but you never know. Elders can so anything they want to really, and if they get a bug up their @ss they can make a big issue out of it.

  • acsot
    acsot

    In a congregation I used to attend, one of the elders had a real bee in his bonnet about membership in the Y. He'd yammer on about something "seemingly innocent" but which was really a quasi religious/political organization and JWs should have no part in it, yadayadayada. I remember looking up info about the Y and there were some references to it as having backed the war effort (WWII) such as raising funds in local chapters of the Y, etc. These articles went back to the 60's, as I recall. On the other hand, I know some Witnesses locally here (in other congregations) who do belong to the Y.

    As mentioned by NameWithheld, it seems like a "local discretion" category. Depends what the elders are like in your parents' congregation. If they're like the one I mentioned above, they had better keep tight-lipped about where they go for their exercise classes.

  • outoftheorg
    outoftheorg

    I recall my mother and other jw's talking about not being a member of the ymca because it was a religion based org. This was in the 1950's era.

    In the 1960's I was a sheriffs deputy and the word was passed around by other officers to not let your children be alone in the ymca or the boy scouts or the catholic church, due to the child molesters there. Too bad we didn't know about the jw's problem in this area. It may have helped me to get out sooner.

    Outoftheorg

  • larc
    larc

    outoftheorg, I went to the Y back in the late 40's. Either my mother was more lenient or it wasn't an issue back then, at least not in our locality. I went there to swim, play ping pong, basketball, and checkers. Not once was I encouraged to do anything religious. As I look back, I see it as a charitable organization designed to give us poor kids in the city something to do.

  • blondie
    blondie

    *** w79 1/1 30-1 Questions from Readers ***


    Is it true that for religious reasons Jehovahs Witnesses may not become members of the YMCA (Young Mens Christian Association)?

    Yes, that is so

    . We have long recognized that the YMCA, though not being a church as such, is definitely aligned with the religious organizations of Christendom in efforts to promote interfaith.

    In September 1885 the Watch Tower took this position:

    "Alas for the Bible-rearing practiced in the Y. M. C. Associations! They are completely under the control of the sectarians, by whom they are supported. Though professedly non-sectarian, professedly controlled by no creed but the Bible, they are more creed-bound than others, since they are bound by all the popular creeds."P. 6.

    Later the underlying religious purpose and interfaith efforts of the YMCA were mentioned in the September 1964 issue of Kingdom Ministry, used by Jehovahs Witnesses in one of their meetings.

    Many persons think of the "Y" simply as a social organization that offers various services, such as a swimming pool, facilities for athletic training and a place for clubs to meet. Commendable as some of these provisions may be, it is important to bear in mind that the YMCA was founded with a distinctly religious basis. This was set out at a World Alliance in Paris in 1855. The main part of that official statement (called the Paris Basis) reads:

    "The Young Mens Christian Associations seek to unite those young men, who, regarding Jesus Christ as their God and Saviour, according to the Holy Scriptures, desire to be His disciples in their faith and in their life, and to associate their efforts for the extension of His Kingdom amongst young men." (Italics added)

    While in some countries churches may not be the YMCAs main source of revenue and while membership is open to persons of all races, nationalities and religions, the fundamental religious objectives of the "Y" cannot be ignored.

    But, some may sincerely wonder, is religion or interfaith really an aspect of the YMCA? The answer must be "Yes." Though religious features may be de-emphasized in some branches of the YMCA, all local "Ys" are still expected to comply with the Paris Basis. Further, note comments from the 1975 YMCA publication Christian and Open:

    Anza A. Lema, associate of the executive committee of the World Alliance of YMCAs, wrote:

    "From its very foundation, it has always looked to the Bible for inspiration and guidance. In many ways its role in the world has tended to complement that of the church without claiming to be a congregation itself. . . .

    "But it is more than just an instrument through which Christians put their moral ideals and teachings into practice as they serve society. Most supporters of the YMCA look at it as a place where real fellowship with one another through Jesus Christ is experienced. . . .

    "In humbling itself and trying to relate its structures and services more directly to the community, it will be carrying out more effectively its role of service and priesthood for its neighbours. . . . "

    Matthias Dannenmann, general secretary, National Council of YMCAs of Germany, said:

    "From its very beginning the YMCA was no doubt meant to have only Christians as members and on the other hand there was the missionary obligation towards those members who could not yet profess Jesus Christ. . . .

    "The YMCA is a big offer, but only in as far as Jesus Christ is working in it as Living Saviour. We should do our very best not to drive out this Lord but as we carry him in our name we should personally use every chance of meeting him in the YMCA and of continuously extending this possibility to other people."

    Officials of the organization have pointed out that they feel that more attention needs to be given to the religious orientation of the YMCA. Dr. Paul M. Limbert, from 1952-1962 secretary-general of the YMCAs World Alliance in Geneva, Switzerland, wrote:

    "It may readily be granted that too few Y.M.C.A.s take full advantage of the opportunity for ecumenical education inherent in these informal contacts among Christians . . .

    "When questions about different forms and beliefs arise among young people and adults, the wise leader takes advantage of the occasion to guide discussion from superficial argument to deeper dialogue. . . .

    Leaders in both churches and Y.M.C.A.s need to recognize more clearly the essential nature of a lay ecumenical Christian movement. A Young Mens Christian Association is not a church nor a substitute for a church. . . . Yet the Faith and Order commission of the British Council of Churches declared in a carefully worded statement in 1959 that the Christian Associations are valuable auxiliaries of the churches, organs of their own missionary activity."The Christian Century, June 10, 1964.

    And The Christian Century of August 29, 1969, in its article "Happy Birthday, Y.M.C.A.!", stated:

    "Realizing that the Christian identity of the Y has often been drowned in swimming pools, its leaders are engaged in recovery of theological awareness and ecumenical vigor. . . . It may be that the greatest challenge to the Y.M.C.A. is to reclaim its religious heritage for the robust assertion of a new ecumenism among laymen in local communities. The Y.M.C.A. just might be able to do things for the Christian churches which, in their parochial rigidities, they seem unable to do for themselves."

    Consequently, there is ample evidence that the YMCA originated with religious objectives and continues to have such to this day.

    In joining the YMCA as a member a person accepts or endorses the general objectives and principles of the organization. He is not simply paying for something he receives, such as when buying things being sold to the public at a store. (Compare 1 Corinthians 8:10; 10:25.) Nor is his membership merely an entry pass, as when a person buys a theater ticket. Membership means that one has become an integral part of this organization founded with definite religious objectives, including the promotion of interfaith. Hence, for one of Jehovahs Witnesses to become a member of such a so-called "Christian" association would amount to apostasy.

    Some individuals have on occasion not become members but have paid a onetime admission fee, viewing this as simply paying for a commercial service available. Even in this regard it is wise to consider whether this course will adversely affect the consciences of others.1 Cor. 8:11-13.

    Jehovahs Witnesses, of course, appreciate a balanced amount of healthful exercise. The Bible says that "bodily training is beneficial for a little." Yet it adds that "godly devotion is beneficial for all things." (1 Tim. 4:8) That does not mean devotion to a triune God. The Bible does not teach that Jesus is "God" in a trinity, as is taught in many of Christendoms churches and as is still included in the "Paris Basis" of the YMCA.1 Cor. 11:3; John 17:3.

    While interfaith efforts and ecumenism are popular today, they are not upheld by the true God, who told his servants: "Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. . . . Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves." (2 Cor. 6:14-17) Also, Jesus plainly said that the Almighty must be worshiped "with spirit and truth." (John 4:24) Most definitely that does not mean joining in a religious cause with persons holding beliefs contrary to what the Scriptures teach. (Rev. 18:4, 5) Thus, it is because of their understanding of what God expects of true worshipers, and of what the purposes and direction of the YMCA are, that Jehovahs Witnesses may not become members of that organization.

    Further, it is well to give thought to the fact that in virtually all the years of the YMCAs existence, it has not acted in harmony with the spirit of Isaiah 2:2-4, as can be noted from the following historical facts:

    "YMCA services to the armed forces began, in the United States, with the Civil War, and it continued giving service through all wars thereafter."Encyclopdia Britannica, Micropdia, Vol. X, p. 835, 1976 ed.

    "In the Civil War, only ten years after its beginning in Boston, and before there were buildings or secretaries or financial resources, a total of 4,859 delegates were recruited and deployed and over six millions of donated funds used for the temporal and spiritual needs of soldiers. . . . In World War I, the American Y.M.C.A. assumed an enormous responsibility for service at home and abroad for which a staff of 25,926 was required with expenditures of more than 167 million dollars. In World War II, the Y.M.C.A. became one of the organizations that founded the United Service Organizations [USO], joining as a group of private religious organizations from Protestant, Catholic, and Jewish faiths in an agreement with the Federal government to provide civilian recreational, welfare, and religious services to men in uniform and to war-production workers in communities adjacent to military establishments."The New Funk & Wagnalls Encyclopedia, Vol. 36, pp. 13,467, 13,468, 1952 ed.

    "YMCA activities for members of the armed forces began during the Civil War (1861-1865). These services increased with each later war and reached their fullest development during World War II (1939-1945). The YMCA maintained more than 450 clubs for the Allied armed forces."The World Book Encyclopedia, Vol. 21, p. 477, 1978 ed.

    This kind of service under the name "Christian" was certainly not in fulfillment of Micah 4:3.

  • NameWithheld
    NameWithheld

    Ah the days of yesteryear, back when good old insane Freddy boy would come right out and tell you what to do. Nowdays that same article would be couched in language that made the non-JW readers think it's a personal decision, of course though we all know 'what a true christain's bibleWT trained conscience' would be ...

  • artful
    artful

    Thank you very much Blondie!

    That's exactly the kind of crap I thought I might find!!!

    I will be sure to warn my parents to keep their membership to themselves.

    Thanks again for all of your input!

    Cheers
    Artful

    P.S. Blondie: I enjoy your "alternate" WT study articles in the "Study Articles" forum ;-)

  • Utopian_Raindrops
    Utopian_Raindrops

    I I knew Blondie would have an Article for this one!

    In our area there is a brother who when studying worked for and lived at The YMCA.Everyone was so impressed when while a new study he quit and then was left homeless.

    Those he was studying with and others helped him find work and housing right away so he was never in the streets BUT, years down the line after baptism some would "Gossip" of him and say hurtful things.

    One person saying stuff of him was an elder's wife......she seemed to know allot more personal stuff about him then anyone else......I wonder why?

    What good is it to change the cores of someones life,.....convert them to your faith with love bombing....... and then later be their worst enemy so that he could then stumble and by your belief possibly loose his life!

    You will know them by thier love.

    agape,

    Utopian_Raindrops

  • blondie
    blondie
    P.S. Blondie: I enjoy your "alternate" WT study articles in the "Study Articles" forum ;-)

    Thanks, artful. I had to research the YMCA myself because the place where I worked was allowed to use the facilities for free, thus I would not be contributing monetarily. But the "brothers" felt it might stumble someone.

    Blondie

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