JW's and stuff

by JoeSomebody 24 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  JoeSomebody

  Good morning everybody

  I thought I spend the hour looking over your responses. I should say that there are some very interesting words to read.

  Stinkypants I am not an elder or servant. I am in good standing within the congregation. I am sure that I would be counciled for speaking with those who are considered apostates.

  I think that you are wrong in your assumption that we hate the Witnesses, afterall many of us still have family that are JW's and we still love them. Also, as for hating the Governing Body, well I personally don't hate anyone but they do seem to lie to/mislead a lot of people. (If you'd like proof I'd love to share it with you)

  I am glad that there is room for love in your heart. My words may have been strong. Should I call it "extreme disappointment" instead?

  On another topic, please show me a couple of what you consider to be lies. One of the things I have noticed is that when people research about the JW's, WTBTS and GB, they seem to blow things out of proportion or they do not bring to light the entire context of what is being taught.

  Warfare is a bit dramatic if you ask me. I personally only try to help people and not judge them like JWs do

  That is good for you. But there are some who consider it a personal vendetta to "get the WT". And there are some who make it their mission in life to save as many JW's as they wish. Spiritual warfare.

  What, and non-JWs aren't loving and caring and genuinely concerned for others? To be totally honest, I've met more caring people outside of the JWs. As a JW I saw a tremendous amount of judgemental, uncaring people. Now that I'm out, not a one of them (not even my parents) have been caring towards me, not even the elders. Oh, and why the wall? Many here are God fearing, God serving Christians, doesn't that put them on the right side of "the spiritual wall"?

  Your reading something in my words that are just not there. I have met many outside the org that are caring individuals. I could honestly say that there are more outside the org than inside that are caring. That is because there are billions more people in the world. With your judgement of what my words intended to say, it may appear as if you are a very judgemental person and was overly critical of those who are JW's. Now that you are no longer associated with JW's, those who are do not care any less for you. I bet they love you just as much as you love them. I would think that your parents should keep in touch with you. But that is their choice. It is between them and God on how they treat you.

  Nice quote, how about this:

  "As every one knows, there are mistakes in the Bible"- Watchtower, 1928 (So maybe Luke 17:2 was a mistake, hehehehehe)

  What is the article talking about?

  Big Tex, you said, "I don't like labels, so referring to me as an apostate puts us at a distance and makes genuine conversation more difficult.

  I am sorry you feel this way. In all reality, since I teach a different gospel than mainstream Christianity, I am an apostate as well. Does this make things on an even footing?

  I am pleased that you recognize the faults of your organization as it shows an open mind.

  Humans are not perfect. We make mistakes and judge in error.

  But you need to also recognize a rule that has been maintained and upheld time and again that is pure evil. That rule is the requirement for a victim (whether child or adult) of incest and/or sexual abuse to have two eyewitnesses (preferably baptized Jehovah's Witnesses in good standing) to confirm the abuse to the body of elders. Surely you must recognize that this places an impossible burden on a victim and allows what is arguably the most evil and hideous type of person, a pedophile, to walk free and continue to rape and brutalize innocents

  Anybody who preys on children is an evil person. I have read about cases where the child (or adult) falsely accuses another. This "evil rule" is in place to protect those who are falsely accused. I will never defend one who preys on children. I pray that each and every one who does so will be judged according to his deeds.

  The scripture you quote certainly applies to this rule and in all candor the people Jesus is referring to is not just the pedophile, but the men in Brooklyn who are have knowledge of the impact on victims and yet do nothing. This is more than simple human imperfection. This is evil incarnate. And if "imperfect men" on the Governing Body are capable of this level of human indifference to daily atrocities then the "truth" is not in them.

  The "men in Brooklyn" may know about the pedophiles, but that is not saying that they are doing nothing about them. They stand by Bible council. It you are opposed to the Bible council, what does that say about your faith in the word of God?

  When I was baptized in 1974 I swore allegiance to God and his son, Jesus. I did not then, and will not, be loyal to any human organization. I cannot conceive of any way in which Jehovah's Witnesses are approved of by the God I was taught about.

  This is your decision. If you feel good about it, then that is your choice.

  Agapeministry you said, You used both names-didn't you?

  No, JoeSombody is my nickname for this message board. I am Gary.

  I didn't know that there were apostates on this forum.??!!!!! So far, I haven't seen where any body is trying to lead people away from God or Jesus~~~Did You see that? Oh!! I guess you mean apostates of the WT. Well, I still haven't read where anybody tore downthe WT other than to mention several of their mistakes. How many times do you think they should predict the end of times before they get it right?

  There are several ways to respond to your message. It all that is mentioned is a "few of their mistakes" and nobody wishes to lead people away from God, then why is this forum here? Let me ask you this question. How many Born Again Christians are hoping for an explosion in the middle east and who are helping it happen? Is this a potential prophesy in the making?

  Or how many times do you think they need to make mistakes in telling people what kind of sex they can have causing thousands of divorces and then after all of those divorces say "They can't be the Master of the brothers/sisters faith? Or as far as that goes-how many mistakes do they get to make about any aspect of our lifes before they're held accountable? Like not going to college etc. that the end if just around the corner or forbidding to marry and not having children because the end is near. Did you know that it is against the Bible to do such things? 1Tim4:1-3

  Do you realize that what you bring out is council. It is up to the reader to take the council or not. What is their goal? To serve Jehovah. To help others serve Jehovah. Going to college, marriage, children. Is it wrong for another to not go to college, not to marry, not to have children and to be a minister to God? As for sex, the GB gives council. It you agree, so be it. If you disagree, so be it. Just as long as you and your wife/husband agree that what you do is in agreement with council with Gods word.

  I must go. I will continue later

  Gary
• 

  Tyler_Durden

  Hi Gary,

  The "men in Brooklyn" may know about the pedophiles, but that is not saying that they are doing nothing about them. They stand by Bible council.

  
  For decades they've known there's a pedophile problem in their organization... and for decades they've kept quiet about it!
  
  And screw 'they stand by Bible council', the GB crucified other religions for far lesser crimes!
  
  Hypocrites!!
  
  Tyler
• 

  Vitameatavegamin

  Joe-

  Welcome. I just wanted to say that while I respect you're position, I personally do not agree with everything the Society says.

  You know as well as I do that in order to remain in good standing with the cong. you pretty much have to accept and agree

  with what they say. If you do not, you are labeled as a "problem" or otherwise. There are many positive aspects to the

  Witnesses, but I just can't buy the whole bag. I mentioned this to a JW family member recently and I was told that to

  disagree with the Society is to disagree with God. Who ever said that the Society was synonymous with God?? This is a

  classic example of what I object to. How can we ever make intelligent informed decisions as people if when as a JW, you

  are really not to question what the Society says???

  As for Jehovah forgiving sin, yes he does. But who is to say that JWs are the only Holy Spirit directed people

  in the world? Why would he choose to bless only one religious organization in the world? Reality is that imperfect people

  make up religious groups. I personally do not feel that he blesses entire groups just because they are who they say they are.

  I think if a persons heart condition is truly pure, then God would have reason to bless that individual, but not necessarily the

  whole group.

  When Judgement day does finally arrive, I do not think that God will be above saying that ONLY JWs will be

  permitted into the paradise earth. What about all the fine people in this world who have never been JW and probably never

  will be, who lead clean, honest and moral lives? Are they going to be struck down just because they did not join the Jehovah's

  Witnesses? Come on! There are so many issues with JWs I have, as I was one for over 20 years. I am not DF or DAd, just very

  inactive. There are so many more issues here I would like to discuss, but it would be too long. After some serious soul searching,

  you too may begin to see what I am saying. I do have a love for our creator, but I will not live by a dictated faith by men.

  I just don't think religion was meant to be that way.

  Thanks. VIta
• 

  Big Tex

  I have read about cases where the child (or adult) falsely accuses another. This "evil rule" is in place to protect those who are falsely accused.

  Has there been false accusations? Absolutely. But how many in comparison to accusations that are accurate? You don't know anymore than I do. The probability of an accusation being accurate increases in direct proportion to the youth of the accuser. The younger the child making the accusation, the more likely the accusation is accurate. How many 4 year olds can tell you what semen tastes like? How many 3 year olds can describe sodomy? I could and there many others on this board who could as well. God gave us a brain that hopefully we can use logically. Too many times people allow fear to override logic with tragic results. But one problem I have with the Witnesses' position, and apparently yours, is the absolute refusal to allow the police to intervene. Who is better equipped to determine the accuracy of a child's accusation of sexual abuse: a police force with years of experience as well as physicians and psychologists trained to look for signs of rape? Or a close minded, judgmental and poorly educated JW elder? Now please don't tell me that Jehovah's Witnesses do not stand in the way of an external investigation. I saw it myself, not only with me but I saw others treated exactly the same way. We were told if we pursued the accusation we would be disfellowshipped.

  Their attitude, and apparently yours, is one of complete disinterest in a victim whether adult or child. Do you have any idea what it feels like to be sodomized? Do you truly care how much pain is inflicted when you feel your rectum split open and blood is spattered on the wall? I can remember my mother telling me to "quit crying" and "act like a man" while she repaired the damage to me. Do you feel anything, not intellectually but in your gut, if I describe a child screaming in pain from the rape by his grandfather, and then seeing his mother in the doorway but watching her turn and walk away? When I was 7 I used to wonder if I swallowed a jar full of Comet would that be enough to kill me. I can describe other, more gruesome and bizarre events from my own childhood, but why bother? According to your santimonious and inaccurate rule, it never happened anyway. I didn't have two witnesses! It doesn't make a difference to people like you and nothing I say will change your outlook. You, and Jehovah's Witnesses, will never allow the horror of sexual abuse to enter into your preconceived idea of God and the Bible. What I have described is nothing compared to what thousands of children go through every day. I battled with depression and flirted with suicide for much of my life. Years wasted and in pain because pompous self-righteous "Christians" around me told me I had a perfect childhood and if I felt depressed it was my fault and I just needed to pray more to God.

  Save your platitudes. They seem to exist only to salve your conscience. Your condescension throughout this thread speaks volumes to me about how deeply you understand what Jesus taught in the Bible.
• 

  cruzanheart

  You know, I think if I hear one more word about "human imperfection" I'm going to throw up. That's the cop-out you people use to explain it when you screw up. Yes, we are all imperfect, but you only make allowances for yourselves, not for the people being hurt. Jesus HELPED people - he didn't tell the blind and the lame and the poor woman who had been bleeding for 12 years that it was their fault, or suggest that if they just attended more meetings or went out in service their problems would go away. You are talking out of ignorance and that ignorance is fed by the Valium-laced dronings that come from Brooklyn. You are being kept from the truth and I think most of you like it that way. It would upset your little world, wouldn't it, to even think that - horrors! - maybe they are wrong and, therefore, YOU are wrong? Maybe the world isn't as bad as you think it is, and maybe the Almighty Society is worse than you think it is. And just maybe their policy on child abuse is criminal and every member of the Governing Body who supports it or allows it should go to jail.

  Your last name isn't Presley, is it? Probably not - I don't think that little child abuser would dare to enter this forum.

  Nina