Do you believe Jehovah's Witnesses' Governing Body is the "faithful slave"?

by Marvin Shilmer 81 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  berrygerry

  Do you believe Jehovah's Witnesses' Governing Body is the "faithful slave"?

  Nope.

  But, I absolutely believe that they are an evil slave, a very, very, very evil slave.
  
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  Listener

  Fisherman could you show me the last publication where they claim that they are God's spokespeople?

  Also, how does one speak with God's holy spirit and why is this limited to those within the JW congregations?

  As for Jesus making the decision as to whether the FDS has been faithful or not, the FDS has already made this decision for him as a given.

  W13 7/15

  <<So, what can we conclude? When Jesus comes to destroy the wicked during the great tribulation, HE WILL FIND that the faithful slave has been loyally giving out spiritual food at the right time to the domestics. Jesus will then be happy to appoint that slave over all his belongings. Those who make up the faithful slave will get this appointment when they receive their reward in heaven and become rulers along with Christ.>>
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  Fisherman

  Also, how does one speak with God's holy spirit and why is this limited to those within the JW congregations?

  JW proclaim that they are the only people God is using.

  Fisherman could you show me the last publication where they claim that they are God's spokespeople?

  That was the question GJ was asked, posted in MS blog. That specific word was used by the person asking the question and GJ responded in terms of that word. Although the lit may not use the exact word spokepersons, it does use the word "spiritual food." and God's Holy Spirit.
  

  As for Jesus making the decision as to whether the FDS has been faithful or not, the FDS has already made this decision for him as a given.

  No they have not. GJ made that clear when he said trying to fulfill that role.

  <<So, what can we conclude? When Jesus comes to destroy the wicked during the great tribulation, HE WILL FIND that the faithful slave has been loyally giving out spiritual food at the right time to the domestics. Jesus will then be happy to appoint that slave over all his belongings. Those who make up the faithful slave will get this appointment when they receive their reward in heaven and become rulers along with Christ.>>

  The related Bible verses state that there WILL BE a FDS that Jesus rewards. Before the reward, the related FDS has the duty of providing spiritual food. Since God is the source of the spiritual food they give out, FDS must have proof from God that they are his appointees and not self anointed.
  

  You are going off on a tangent about what I posted. You know what JW believe and publish. WT lit proclaims that JW make up the OS, GC, FDS, LF. WT literature proclaims that God gives JW his Holy Spirit exclusively to carry out His work. WT proclaims that JW are the ONLY people on earth that God "uses" during these "last days."
  

  
  
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  Listener

  Fishermango

  <<JW proclaim that they are the only people God is using.>>

  I agree with this statement but God's HS is not limited to JWs and I don't believe they make this claim as his HS works in many ways in fulfilling his will. If his HS does not operate outside of the JWs then he would not be able to see Armageddon come to fruition or even to aid people who are seeking him to find him. You are claiming that Jackson was saying that he meant the HS was only used exclusively within the organization and GJ made no such claim and neither to they claim this generally.

  When GJ said that someone can act in harmony with God's spirit in the congregation in giving comfort and help he did not say anything about exclusivity, he was simply limiting his discussion to within the congregation in this discussion.

  They have never claimed that God's HS operates both within his earthly organization and outside it. If you were to ask GJ that if someone was to comfort or help another person using the word of God, the bible, I doubt he would deny that God's HS was not in operation because by following the bible his HS is in operation.
  

  Regarding the claim of being God's spokespeople

  <<That was the question GJ was asked, posted in MS blog. GJ did not proclaim that he was, using that word. Although the lit may not use the exact word spokepersons, it does use the word "spiritual food." and God's Holy Spirit.>>

  It matters greatly as to what words are being used and GJ does not deny or agree that they are God's spokesperson. Although he uses other words to express an opinion, they do not answer the original question.
  

  Being God's spokesperson is very different to providing spiritual food. One is speaking for God, the other, providing spiritual food, is using the bible which was provided to us through God's HS by inspiring writers, to provide others with direction as to what God has told us. The bible was written by people whom God appointed as his spokespersons whereas providing the spiritual food is using those inspired words to teach us.
  

  .

  <<So, what can we conclude? When Jesus comes to destroy the wicked during the great tribulation, HE WILL FIND that the faithful slave has been loyally giving out spiritual food at the right time to the domestics. Jesus will then be happy to appoint that slave over all his belongings. Those who make up the faithful slave will get this appointment when they receive their reward in heaven and become rulers along with Christ. W13 7/15>>

  <<The related Bible verses state that there WILL BE a FDS that Jesus rewards. Before the reward, the related FDS has the duty of providing spiritual food. Since God is the source of the spiritual food they give out, FDS must have proof from God that they are his appointees and not self anointed. >>
  

  The related Bible verse does not state that Jesus will find that the FDS is doing what they were appointed to do. The verse states IF he finds them being faithful & discreet then he will appoint them over all his belongings. As you mention that is for Jesus to determine on his return and it is not a given therefore the claim by the GB that there will be an FDS that Jesus rewards is pre-emptying Jesus decision.
  

  Matt 24:45-47 Who really is the faithful and discreet* slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?+ 46 Happy is that slave if his master on coming finds him doing so!+ 47 Truly I say to you, he will appoint him over all his belongings.

  You say I am going off on a tangent and it may appear that way to you but you made claims that you know what Jackson actually meant yet if your basis for making these opinions is not correct then your assumption as to what he was saying cannot be correct either.
  
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  Fisherman

  and I don't believe they make this claim as his HS works in many ways in fulfilling his will.

  Believe it. Prior to Pentecost, God used the Jews exclusively. Pouring his HS on non Jews was proof that God was using the nations. I do not want to get into a discussion about how God uses his Holy Spirit as taught by the WTS.). I have stated that JW proclaim that God uses (Holy Spirit) them EXCLUSIVELY . Should I say more?

  Being God's spokesperson is very different to providing spiritual food........."

  Your views differ from JW teachings

  it is not a given therefore the claim by the GB that there will be an FDS that Jesus rewards is pre-emptying Jesus decision.

  Given WTS teachings. You disagree You know the JW website if you want more info.

  Tangent.

  It is not about what you believe. It is about what GJ said. He said that being God's spokesman ( in terms of being used by God) means not only being FDS but also OTHERS acting with HS IN THE CONGREGATION . You believe different, ok.

  JW do not teach that there is a spokesman, sort of speak, as you have described. Anyway JW teachings are in print. GJ did not mean that JW teach that JW are the spokesman you describe. In terms of spokesman, he explained that other JW are used by God besides the FDS. That is what he meant. In terms of him being FDS, he did not deny it, but said that they were trying to fufill the role. That is it.

  Make no mistake about it, JW proclaim that they are the only people on earth that God uses to do his work. Of course, God uses his HS to accomplish his will as he chooses, but since God's HS is how God works and since JW are the only people on earth doing his work(JW teaching,) God ONLY gives his Holy Spirit to JW to do his work. It is all in print. I do not want to go off in a tangent about JW teaching.
  
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  nugget

  He may have stated that they were not God's spokesmen but it would not be the only lie he told the RC. If they do not believe that they are gods representatives on Earth ,which should have been the wording of the question, then why can people be disfellowshipped for refusing to accept this fact?
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  Splash

  Fisherman According to your article, the man was not asked if he was "the faithful and discreet slave." He was asked: "...do you see yourselves as Jehovah God's spokespeople." He responded (clarifying that the FDS are not God's only spokespeople) that others too in the congregation could act and speak with God's Holy Spirit. He meant that God uses other JW (exclusively) besides the GB.

  You missed the word "evidently".

  Do you know what it means to speak the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
  It means that you speak fully and plainly.
  If you have to engage in literary gymnastics to validate something to yourself, then either GJ wasn't speaking the whole truth, or you are anxiously trying to twist things to your fragile belief system.

  I suspect both of these are true.

  Sounds to me like GJ is not the self-appointed spokesman for God, but you are the self-appointed spokesman for GJ.
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  Listener

  Believe it. Prior to Pentecost, God used the Jews exclusively. Pouring his HS on non Jews was proof that God was using the nations. I do not want to get into a discussion about how God uses his Holy Spirit as taught by the WTS.). I have stated that JW proclaim that God uses (Holy Spirit) them EXCLUSIVELY . Should I say more?

  In particular aspects they do claim that God uses his Holy Spirit exclusively and in particular they claim this in regards to the FDS as being the only ones whom Jesus appointed and only they are directed by HS in that role. What Jackson did explain was that the HS can operate in different ways, one of those being through the FDS to provide spiritual food and the other through providing help and comfort to members in the congregation. Nothing in his speech limited the workings of God's HS to these two areas. Jackson did not discuss other ways in which God's HS functions. Therefore there was no 'exlusivity' in his discussion whereas you suggest that there was.
  

  t is not about what you believe. It is about what GJ said. He said that being God's spokesman ( in terms of being used by God) means not only being FDS but also OTHERS acting with HS IN THE CONGREGATION . You believe different, ok.

  No it isn't about what I believe, I am only trying to work out what Jackson was alluding at. It is clear that he did not answer the question. With all the tricky talk that the org uses and the different understandings they have for different terms it is hard to get to the bottom of anything. I am trying to point out that the use of the term spokesperson can not be applied to everything else that Jackson was saying in response to the question, that is, it does not relate to his disccussion abut the Holy Spirit or the FDS. Those two terms are different and cannot be applied in the same way when talking about a spokesperson.

  JW do not teach that there is a spokesman, sort of speak, as you have described. Anyway JW teachings are in print. GJ did not mean that JW teach that JW are the spokesman you describe. In terms of spokesman, he explained that other JW are used by God besides the FDS. That is what he meant. In terms of him being FDS, he did not deny it, but said that they were trying to fufill the role. That is it.

  I agree with what you have written here. I find it interesting that he didn't claim that the Governing Body when trying to fulfill the role of the FDS had been approved and appointed by Jesus. Trying to fulfill a specific role and being appointed by a higher authority for that role is different.
  

  Make no mistake about it, JW proclaim that they are the only people on earth that God uses to do his work. Of course, God uses his HS to accomplish his will as he chooses, but since God's HS is how God works and since JW are the only people on earth doing his work(JW teaching,) God ONLY gives his Holy Spirit to JW to do his work. It is all in print. I do not want to go off in a tangent about JW teaching.

  Yes, I agree that this is their belief however Jackson did not clarify that point. Jackson made nothing clear other than that the Holy Spirit was operating in both the congregation and through the FDS and that the Governing Body was only trying to fulfill the role of the FDS.
  
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  Half banana

  He did not deny they were the FDS instead he cleverly asked the question, " Now that would seem presumptuous wouldn't it?" In other words his followers would take it that they are the FDS and opposers would agree with him that it would be a presumptuous claim.
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  SimonSays

  This is interesting. In this world, anyone believing that had a calling through the holy spirit is viewed as a hierarchy, yet through rhetorical devices you single out the GB. AJW rhetoric, got to love it. Better email the Pontiff to let him know that he’s mistaken about papal infallibility and worldwide Bishops are liars according to you people, since they hold themselves to a higher standard than the GB. The Pope speaks directly with God, and the Bishops are Apostles according to their creed.