The Government & Disfellowshipping

by Mary 16 Replies latest jw friends

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  Mary

  From everything I've read here, the jist seems to be that if you're disfellowshipped, you have little chance of winning a lawsuit against the Borg because the government still gives them the right to "shun" members if they see fit.

  It occurred to me that perhaps we're ignoring a potential ray of light at the end of the tunnel. What if we tried to lobby the government into changing this, so that it would be illegal for any religion to shun former members? It's a long shot maybe, but if it could be shown (maybe on another program like Dateline) of how unfair, cruel and inhumane it is to tell people they must shun family members or close friends simply because they don't think the same way as them, then maybe eventually, one day, a law would be passed forbidding shunning in any religion.

  It's not just ex-Witnesses that would support this: ex-Mormons, ex-Scientologists, ex-Seventh Day Adventists etc. have all suffered the same as JWs when they come to realize that their religion isn't the "true" religion either. And how many of them have also lost their families and close friends because their church decided to shun them?

  Any thoughts on this?
• 

  wednesday

  I read on the WTS site that a person who suied them for DF and shunning went all the way to the supreme court and lost /.freedom of religion. Also, a lot of people do not realize that it is more than just the jws right to make rules and enforce them. jws have worked hard to tell people they are not a cult. Many people do not see them as a cult-just annoying. they fgure, if u don't want to be one-leave.

  I really think our best hope lies in this child abuse issue.. the gov will step in to protect childrens rights. If a religion is shown to hurt or viloate a childs rights, there may be some hope. As far as adults, well they figure u can leave the religion, and well they can't make people talk to u if they do not want to.

  this problem will probalby be addressed via minors rights bieng violated. and u know, even if they made it illegal to shun,jws would envoke the marking thing and it all amounts to the same thing . They are going to have control over who u talk to, one way or the other.
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  Utopian_Raindrops

  Well any organization that wishes can shun. Religion or not.

  The Boy Scouts have done this,...not allowing an atheist teen to belong or a homosexual scout leader to remain.

  It is the separation of families that should be focused on.

  For instance, when a couple divorces and the non-jw spouse is belittled in their childrens eyes or even kept a away.

  This is totally wrong and even Government officials should be able to see that.

  The WTBS is like a giant iceberg and former members or abused members are like a tiny tiny ice pick just chipping away.

  If people go for putting the whole policy to rest all at once it wont happen. The GB will just tighten their reign on our loved ones inside and the will suffer more then those impatiently waiting on the outside to hug and kiss those they love.

  If a cause is fought for it should be for the right to have a normal relationship with the fleshly family Our Creator gave as his precious gift to us.

  Any Battle Fought with LOVE can win. Because GOD is LOVE and LOVE CONQUERS ALL!

  Well any organization that wishes can shun. Religion or not.

  The Boy Scouts have done thisnot allowing an atheist teen to belong or a homosexual scout leader to remain.

  It is the separation of families that should be focused on.

  For instance, when a couple divorces and the non-jw spouse is belittled in their childrens eyes or even kept at away.

  This is totally wrong and even Government officials should be able to see that.

  The WTBS is like a giant iceberg and former members or abused members are like a tiny tiny ice pick just chipping away.

  If people go for putting the whole policy to rest all at once it wont happen. The GB will just tighten their reign on our loved ones inside and the will suffer more then those impatiently waiting on the outside to hug and kiss those we love.

  If a cause is fought for it should be for the right to have a normal relationship with the fleshly family Our Creator gave as his precious gift to us.

  Any Battle Fought with LOVE can win. Because GOD is LOVE and LOVE CONQUERS ALL!

  Flowers everyone!!

  Agape,

  Utopian_Raindrops

  

  Edited by - Utopian_Raindrops on 23 December 2002 21:3:39

  Edited by - Utopian_Raindrops on 23 December 2002 21:4:58

  Edited by - Utopian_Raindrops on 23 December 2002 21:9:17
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  NeonMadman

  The problem is that you're trying to make a law that prohibits not doing something, and that is impractical. How would such a law be enforced? Would you have someone arrested for refusing to speak to you? You can't make a law that requires people to have social contact with other people; it would be a logistical nightmare. And, if the law was directed at shunning doctrines, prohibiting religious organizations from having such rules, it would rightly be seen as an infringement on freedom of religion. The only possibility of successful legal action in cases of shunning would have to derive from invasion of privacy or alienation of friends and family. At least in those cases, there would be quantifiable damages that could be recovered through civil action. But, again, if you agreed to those ground rules going in, and if the group did not violate its own procedures in expelling you, your likelihood of success is slim.
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  DevonMcBride

  There would have to be extensive research and evidence to show how emotionally damaging and abusive shuning is. Expert Psychologists and therapists would have to be referenced and statistics of an increase in suicide from those shunned would have to be presented.

  And even then, it would be a longshot.

  Devon

  Edited by - devonmcbride on 23 December 2002 21:9:7
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  bikerchic

  

  Thanks for the flower U_R.......

  Mary I think because it's a religion you join, no one forces you into joining the government wouldn't look at it as something they need to control. At least lets hope not, who needs more governmental control, I think we have enough of that!

  Katie my .02
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  Scully

  Neon Madman writes:

  The problem is that you're trying to make a law that prohibits not doing something, and that is impractical. How would such a law be enforced?

  There are laws like this already. For instance, an off-duty physician, EMT or nurse, can be held accountable for failing to help someone in a medical emergency. The premise is, if you have the ability to save someone's life in an emergency situation, but refuse to get involved you are liable. In that situation a person has to at least initiate interventions to see that the person who requires medical assistance gets the help they need.

  Shunning is one of the sneakiest forms of psychological abuse that is used by JWs. As you point out, the individual is not actually doing anything obviously hurtful to the person who is the target of shunning. Unless you were in a group of people where everyone knew everyone else, shunning is a covert form of psychological terrorism - an invisible slap in the face to the target person. What if - instead of shunning - JWs were required to walk up to DFd or DAd people and slap them in the face and then turn around and walk away?? Slapping someone is more of an indignant act against the target, more than it is physically painful. But, physical assault is against the law. Unfortunately psychological assault is not regarded as menacingly as physical assault. Even a stalker can literally terrorize another person psychologically by their presence, gestures, innuendo etc, but until they do something that crosses the line and actually issue a threat against their target, law enforcement has a great deal of difficulty helping the targeted person to have the stalking stopped.

  Playground bullies also use non-verbal, psychological means to terrorize their targets. JWs are grown-up bullies - nothing more, nothing less - and the behaviour has to stop, because it causes so much senseless harm to its victims, and the subsequent victims of those victims - Columbine, for instance.

  Perhaps looking into legislation that covers bullying is an avenue that needs to be explored with regard to JWs. Just an idea....

  Love, Scully
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  Shakita

  Where children are concerned, the government has, and will step in to protect the child's rights. The courts have over ruled parents where the religion of the parents has kept them from needed medical care, or where the children have been neglected and abused. The way to approach this shunning issue with the courts should start with the children of JW's. If it can be proven in a court of law that JW's harm their children emotionally by forcing the shunning of family members; mother, father, siblings, then it leads the way for legal suits against the WT. Maybe when a precedent is set with the children of JW's concerning shunning, it will open the way for adults to sue the WT for severe emotional distress caused by religious persecution. Longshot, or not, I believe that it is coming. The WT has hurt too many people and destroyed too many families for too long now.

  Mrs. Shakita
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  garybuss

  
  
  Trying to beat the huge Watch Tower Publishing conglomerate in court on a religious freedom issue like shunning is like trying to bankrupt a Las Vegas casino by playing one of their own machines.
  
  
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  Athanasius

  While I view the JW practice of shunning as cruel and unusual punishment and don't like it anymore than the rest of you, it is still a matter of choice. I have JW relatives who shun me because I left the Watch Tower. But that is their constitutional right. Just as it was my constitutional right to leave the JWs. If the government took away our rights to choose whom we want to associate with we would cease to be a republic and become a dictatorship.

  Sincerely,

  Athanasius