Although this discussion is justified, my opinion is this.
Any kind of sexual abuse is a matter for the secular authorities and not the elders or elderettes.
Look out for a new congregation position for elders wives: Helper to the Elders
by Splash 18 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
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wallsofjericho
99% of sisters DONT WANT privileges. They want a husband with status.
this is how they are raised in the Org
nothing of any significance will change
sisters hold the doors open at assemblies now. We'll just see more of that stuff
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ListlessWitness
I don't mean to put a dampener on this thread, but please try to show a little bit of respect for women! There are many ladies who are eminently capable of handling a role like this in an honest, dignified manner. (I should know, I am one of them.) I am a little bit offended by these assertions that there are no sincere, caring sisters who genuinely care for victims of abuse and could provide a better environment for victims to raise their concerns than in the elders' club. You all sound like the GB, writing off sisters as incapable because they are gossip-mongering, self-important gobshites who care only about themselves and appearances. Little bit offensive.
The first question to be asked of a victim should be along these lines: "As far as you know, are you the only person who has witnessed this person's vile behaviour?" As the answer will usually be affirmative, it should be gently explained that at the present time, the congregation does not have any means to do anything about it. The victim might then be strongly and actively encouraged to engage with the secular authorities as soon as possible so that the perp's vile behaviour can be stopped, investigated and prosecuted. The victim could be gently and carefully made aware that these predators rarely desist from their disgusting activities once they have crossed the line and touched a child inappropriately (many victims don't really realise the extent of predatory behaviour of abusers and think they are the only one affected.)
Without extensive Child Protection and counselling training, NO Jdub should be giving a forum for victims to talk about their concerns. Because the wrong questions, or leading questions, could contaminate the evidence and hinder the authorities' investigations. And as we have seen in the ARC, scriptural 'comfort' is easily misconstrued by a traumatised victim. Every child-abuse disclosure should be immediately referred to the appropriate authorities. If spiritual help is required or requested, it should be noted that it has to be put on hold until the victim has been strengthened by being believed by the authorities and receiving counselling to ease some of the trauma they have suffered.
IMHO
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punkofnice
I don't hold my breath. Wacko Jacko will pay lip service to Caesar's law but in practice will probably do nothing. Especially when you consider he is just 1 man in the WBT$ popehood.
I imagine he'll get back to cult HQ and say his piece and get shouted down by that vile bigot AM3. Twats like Sanderson will grovel at the crotch of AM3 as he screams his head off.
Loesh will probably be totally out of it and in la la land.
I can just imagine it now!
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username
The problem with having "mature sisters" only involved in allegations of sexual abuse would mean the watchtower would be admitting they have a problem in this area. Leading to the rank and file realising that the spiritual paradise is not actually that at all.
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konceptual99
Dear Listless,
Many apologies. I certainly did not mean to imply an disrespect and there are many sincere and genuine women in the congregation and if a victim is going to talk to anyone, being able to talk to one or two of these is about the best case scenario in the circumstances.
Having said that, the congregation is a reflection of life and many of the power plays and negative social interactions that go on everywhere are also manifest in the congregation. On top of that, the very nature of the organisation is one of hierarchy, privilege and the categorisation of individuals purely on outward displays of "faith" and obedience to organisational norms.
In my experience, the most genuine people at the kingdom hall are often at the bottom of the pecking order and not at the top. Allowing oneself to become self righteous by proxy, vicariously bestowing status on oneself through association with elders, missionaries, bethelites etc. is very common. The most spiteful, hateful comments I have heard in my decades as a Witness have come from the mouths of elders wives.
Any move by the organisation to formalise some kind of role for women here does on the face of it allow for a more compassionate approach. I accept that there is a danger of cynicism and even bitterness to overly bias comments and I apologise again for any part I may have played in this. I would still suggest however, that every time there is some opportunity of "service" or privilege extended it simply opens the door further for those with the least genuine motives, male or female, to explore yet another avenue of organisational superiority.
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Diogenesister
thread, but please try to show a little bit of respect for women! There are many ladies who are eminently capable of handling a role like this in an honest, dignified manner. (I should know, I am one of them.) I am a little bit offended by these assertions that there are no sincere, caring sisters who genuinely care for victims of abuse and could provide a better environment for victims to raise their concerns than in the elders' club. You all sound like the GB, writing off sisters as incapable because they are gossip-mongering, self-important gobshites who care only about themselves and appearances. Little bit offensive.
The first question to be asked of a victim should be along these lines: "As far as you know, are you the only person who has witnessed this person's vile behaviour?" As the answer will usually be affirmative, it should be gently explained that at the present time, the congregation does not have any means to do anything about it. The victim might then be strongly and actively encouraged to engage with the secular authorities as soon as possible so that the perp's vile behaviour can be stopped, investigated and prosecuted. The victim could be gently and carefully made aware that these predators rarely desist from their disgusting activities once they have crossed the line and touched a child inappropriately (many victims don't really realise the extent of predatory behaviour of abusers and think they are the only one affected.)
Without extensive Child Protection and counselling training, NO Jdub should be giving a forum for victims to talk about their concerns. Because the wrong questions, or leading questions, could contaminate the evidence and hinder the authorities' investigations. And as we have seen in the ARC, scriptural 'comfort' is easily misconstrued by a traumatised victim. Every child-abuse disclosure should be immediately referred to the appropriate authorities. If spiritual help is required or requested, it should be noted that it has to be put on hold until the victim has been strengthened by being believed by the authorities and receiving counselling to ease some of the trauma they have suffered.
IMHO
Agreed 100%
1) All sexual assault cases child, woman OR man, let's remember this can happen to men and boys, to be immediately reported and victim steered toward professionals, all kangeroo courts (JC's) on hold until secular authorities have dealt with it.As Listlesswitness correctly states any interference by the JW's can interfere with the investigation /outcome adversely
2) I have/do know intelligent, sensitive and genuine sisters who would not dream of breaking confidentiality. To suggest otherwise is extremely demeaning to women. While I accept that has not been the experience of many, I would suggest that when adults are treated like imbeciles they will behave like imbeciles. This is what happens to many JW women who are barred from secular education, family and spiritual responsibility, thus kept in a state of permenant infantilism to an even greater extent than the men.
Headship has NOT stood the test of time, it is repeatedly taken advantage of as the RC proves. In the ideal JW world, women should go from their fathers' domination go their husbans with no secular education in between, Taliban anyone????
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ListlessWitness
Dear konceptual99
Thank you so much for responding, I agree with everything in your response and most of your original post (except for the last sentence, although I can see now that was related specifically to the likely involvement of a particular type of woman.) Realistically, it is unlikely that any of the more genuine sisters (and I was one) would be high up enough in the food chain to merit consideration if the 'helper' thing were ever to become a formalised 'role'.
In fact your response has put all the comments in perspective for me, that probably all posters were relating how they feel things will actually be handled by a particular breed of sister, not tarring all sisters with that brush. Many thanks for clarifying.
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konceptual99
NP Listless,
As you say my last sentence and, I suspect, other similar comments, was based on a certain type of person however this was not clear. Thanks for pointing out the implications of what I said as it was unfair not to highlight the other side of the story.
k99