Judging

Marcos

I approach this thread with some trepidation. I understand that most of us here have had a bad to terrible experience with an organization that is highly judgmental and vengeful in its approach to its members. So I post this with the utmost respect toward all who wish to read it.

However, I often see here what appears to be a very partial and one-sided application of Matthew 7: 1 5; Judge not, that you be not judged.

While I believe that we are positively commanded to judge others, I also believe that such judging has more to do with those who are Christian. I particularly agree with something I read on one of the sites I visited (http://www.surefoundation.org/JudgeNot.htm):

But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner - not even to eat with such a person. For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges . Therefore put away from yourselves the evil person. Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge? I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren?

- 1 Corinthians 5:11-6:5

Also, another quote from ( http://www.fundamentalbiblechurch.org/Tracts/fbcjudge.htm ):

Christians should guard against the tendency of the flesh to assume a critical and censorious attitude toward those who do not share our opinions about other matters than those which have to do with Bible doctrine and moral conduct. Rather than "pick to pieces" our brethren in Christ, it is our privilege and duty to do everything we can to encourage their spiritual edification. We ought to love and pray for one another and consider ourselves lest we be tempted. Galatians 6:1.

Also, the definition of the Greek word krino: ( http://www.fundamentalbiblechurch.org/Tracts/fbcjudge.htm )

The New Testament Greek word that is most often translated "judge" or "judgment" is "krino." On the one hand, it means to distinguish, to decide, to determine, to conclude, to try, to think and to call in question . That is what God wants His children to do as to whether preachers, teachers and their teachings are true or false to His Word. The Apostle Paul writes: "And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; that ye may approve things that are excellent" (Philippians 1:9-10). A wrong idea of love and lack of knowledge and judgment causes God's people often to approve things that are anything but excellent in God's sight. The epistle to the Hebrews tells us that mature believers, that is, those who are of "full age, " are ". .. those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil " (see Hebrews 5:11-14).

On the other hand, the Greek word "krino"-judge or judgment-means to condemn, to sentence and to punish. This is God's prerogative for He has said, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay, saith the Lord" (Romans 12:19).

In my experience life is a series of judgement calls. We all have to (and do) judge things and people every day. To use good judgement is critical to our way of life. Without it, we end up being weak willed and of no practical value to anyone, particularly to our children.

I believe we need to teach these skills to our kids so that they will have a valid platform from which to make good decisions in the future without being judgemental toward others who dont view things the same way.

Based upon our shared experiences we should be very hesitant to try to force our ideas on others. But, we should always be ready to give an answer to anyone who questions our beliefs.

My life has become so much more joyful since I made the decision not to offer my opinions unless invited to do so. I have had some of my best conversations since I have begun to really listen to what another individual has to say.

Since I am a Christian (and fundamental in my views) I have been asked more questions and listened to by more people who actually see my life and want to know who I am and WHY?

What are your thoughts on judging (in the sense of distinguishing, deciding, determining, concluding, trying, thinking and calling into question)? Does the distinction between that and the other definition of krino make sense to you? Marcos

animal

Many on this site judge, purposely or otherwise, with thier words. Bitterness, ego, or any or the many other reasons. Many are still JW's in thier heart, just not in thier typing.

Animal

Marcos

True. That touches on my point. Seems like we should be able to have civil discussions without the bitter attacks that occur (no one has yet attacked me bitterly). I do enjoy the humor, however.

I feel judging for ourselves and being "judgemental" are two different things.

Marcos

animal

Exactly. I am always teaching the guys in our motorcycle group to NOT show thier emotions on thier shirtsleeves. Make others do that, then you know where they are before you go on the offensive. It works great, plus you never open yourself up to the emotional attacks so many others enjoy.

I always am amazed at how many hits a thread will get when someone is ripe for an attack, how many are so quick to go for blood. Maybe it's just me, but doesnt that seem strange coming from a group so tired of being in an oppresive Borg? It cracks me up most of the time.

Animal

Banshee

Marcos,

Thank you for bringing up this topic. I know a lot of folks on here post some very angry and bitter stuff on here; some of it may me judgmental. However, I think this is mainly done out of their feelings of hurt and betrayal and not really because they want to condemn individuals still in the WTS. For so long, these people were harshly judged within the organization by other members and were unable to answer back for fear they would be expelled and lose all contact with family members or friends inside the WTS.

Personally, I have been out of the WTS for quite a while now and have healed from all of the hurt and religious abuse I experienced while part of the WTS. Today, I am a nondenominational Christian and I try very much to apply Jesus' words at Matthew 7:1-5. I even make it a point to pray every day for all in the WTS, asking God to forgive them and heal them and bless them. Interestingly, also, because of my nonjudmental attitude and by trying to live by the command Jesus gave to "love one another" and to "love thy neighbor as thyself", three of my immediate family members who were in the WTS began to ask me questions about why I am so happy, content and at peace in my life? As a result, all three have left the WTS and are beginning their own spiritual quests.

So, yes, it is more beneficial to try to the best of our ability not to judge in the sense of the Greek word krino. As for the other type of "judging", I call that discernment and decision making. I personally don't even use the word "judge" or "judgment" in referring to matters of choice or instinct.

Also, I have seen lots of posters on here who display the same positive attitude on here of simply being desirous of helping others who come out of the WTS.

Thanks again for your post.

--Banshee

Marcos

Animal,

Thanks for your comments. I neglected to mention something in my last post to you. I very much enjoyed reading your post yesterday regarding your experiences. Glad things have worked out well.

Marcos

animal

Thanks Marcos.... most of what I have learned has made me into what I feel is a better person. I did it for the kids, but also for me.

You would be surprised at how many people took what I wrote so personal, and went on the attack. I guess some just dont get it.

Animal

Xena

I agree that life is a series of judgement calls. To me being judgemental is to judge another as being worthy or unworthy, to make a judgement call is to determine my own course of action based on my own experiences. I try very hard now days to be open minded toward others..lol I spent WAY to many years judging and being judged!

Marcos

Yes, Banshee, I basically agree with you. Many people in every walk of life are prone to judge others harshly.

I do use the word judge when I teach. I always try to make the distinction between judging in the sense of condemning and judging in the sense of discerning. My understanding of the definition of "krino" is that it covers both types of judging. My take on it is that judging to condemn is pretty much reserved to God and even to secular authorities (by His permission). But that using judgment in the form of discernment is just common sense.

Of course, many have said that "common sense" is not so common.

We probably all judge everyone and everything as we observe the world. It is not always right or necessary to pronounce our judgments (read: discernments). Some of the most "non-judgmental" people I have met are pretty judgmental when something or someone violates their particular definition of what if "right".

I don't mind the fact that many people disagree with me on many topics. I do like to hear reasoning as to why things are different than the way I perceive them. I have been swayed to change my beliefs on many matters by well-reasoned arguments. But, I'm hardheaded. I don't learn well by having someone's opinion forced on me by screaming or belittling myself or some other participant in a discussion.

Case in point: I HATE ALL CAPS! Additionally, some of the people who come onto this (and other) board(s) sometimes try to make a point but their reasoning is so obscured by poor spelling, lack of punctuation and lack of paragraphs that it is hard to follow.

It is judgmental but such things cause me to discount to some degree what is being said.

Thanks again for responding.

Marcos

Animal,

You were attacked? For telling your story? I'll have to re-check the thread.

You're probably right. Some just don't get it. It also could be that some don't really READ the posts. It has often happend to me in writing and speaking that sometimes people fixate on some word that is, for them, a triggering device and just explode without getting the sense of what is being said.

Patience.

Marcos

Judging

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