Analysis of Apostasy

by pseudoxristos 20 Replies latest jw friends

  • pseudoxristos
    pseudoxristos

    A load of crap from a JW Forum. I thought everyone would gag enjoy.

    I have recently written a short essay on the mode and operation
    of apostasy upon the individual attentive to its call. It was
    designed primarily as a response to a brother inquiring about
    this social phenomena, yet Heinz has most graciously permitted
    me to post it here in light of recent developments amongst some
    of our Christian family...

    *** I would like to briefly discuss just why some individuals, in
    spite of receiving a higher education and having a keen mind,
    can momentarily or forth-rightly fall into the snare of apostate
    reasoning. I use this term liberally, not to label persons as such,
    but to describe their manner of thinking as it is subject to the
    constraints of an oppositional viewpoint. It has come to my
    attention, and indeed many others, that some Witnesses have
    chosen to stand against the society on various issues; resulting
    in confusion and perturbation on the part of those less
    comprehensive of selective issues. Yet, one should not be too
    surprised at such seemingly distressing events. Professor
    Bryan Wilson, reader Emeritus in Sociology at Oxford University
    correctly observes in a 1994 paper on apostasy:

    "Every religion which makes claim to a definitive body of doctrine
    and practice which it regards as exclusively its own, is likely to be
    faced with the fact that from time to time some erstwhile
    members will relinquish their allegiance and cease to subscribe
    to the formalities of the faith, in at least some, perhaps all, of its
    teachings, practices, organization, and discipline."

    To be sure, this is a sad consequence of those who decide that
    their own doctrinal understanding, or that of another presents
    itself as a more expedient solution to questions that may arise
    from the mouth of those who seek to dissuade others from
    considering the Witnesses as a viable theological choice. Of
    course, freedom to choose ones belief is a credit to the Creators
    wisdom in that it allows personal motive to be exposed.
    However, this freedom is often coerced by some who have no
    other design than to repudiate their former associates through
    the exposition of alleged doctrinal error.

    Herein lies an important axiom that all who may be unaware of
    the negative effects of apostate ideology do well to consider;
    namely `APOSTASY DOES NOT DISCRIMINATE.' It cares not for
    qualification or erudition. The reason for this is that apostasy
    originates from the heart. It therefore searches for a loophole
    within the framework of ones moral sensibilities simply because
    it 'can', and it 'can' because it originates from the heart. Hence,
    an ideology or philosophy generated through entropy, in this
    case apostasy, will do more to systematically corrode one's
    moral resilience than almost any other form of defection. By its
    very nature apostate thinking seeks religious disaffiliation as its
    ultimate goal. Notice how Wilson briefly construes the impetus
    behind the apostate mindset:

    "The disaffected and the apostate are in particular informants
    whose evidence has to be used with circumspection. The
    apostate is generally in need of self-justification. He seeks to
    reconstruct his own past, to excuse his former affiliations, and to
    blame those who were formerly his closest associates".

    In harmony with this, a similar article by Lonnie D. Kliever,
    Professor of Religious Studies at Southern Methodist University
    concludes:

    "... apostates always act out of a scenario that vindicates
    themselves by shifting responsibility for their actions to the
    religious group. Indeed, the various brainwashing scenarios so
    often invoked against the new religious movements have been
    overwhelmingly repudiated by social scientists and religion
    scholars as nothing more than calculated efforts to discredit the
    beliefs and practices of unconventional religions in the eyes of
    governmental agencies and public opinion. Such apostates can
    hardly be regarded as reliable informants by responsible
    journalists, scholars, or jurists."

    A further point to consider when investigating the engine driving
    disaffection and apostasy is pride, which is capable of
    reconstructing a persons self image AND the image presented
    by others. For instance, when under the influence of extreme
    pride `assurance' can often become `self-assurance'and
    conviction of belief can turn to `convicted belief.' This unfortunate
    reversal occurs primarily due to the emphasis of conviction
    being transferred from the object (in this case an individual's
    religious fraternity),to the subject (or in otherwords the prideful
    person). Hence, no longer is one's religious institution the
    provider of instruction, but instead becomes a harness that has
    lost its usefulness, since now the primary source of spiritual
    edification is qualified by personal preference.

    This dynamic shift of everything that one may have considered
    certain has become misappropriated by pride and then hidden
    from the individual by pride itself!! Yet, very often this ball can be
    put in motion through the cordial reception granted to apostate
    reasoning. It is for good reason then that Jehovah admonished
    his people not to take themselves too seriously when he
    warned,

    "Pride is before a crash and a haughty spirit before stumbling"
    (Proverbs 16:18)

    Yet, this self-destructive progression often goes unnoticed even
    though the scriptures explain how such ruination is transferred.
    For the inspired writer states that it is by his `mouth' that an
    apostate brings his fellowman to ruin (Proverbs 11:9a)
    Subsequently, when one uses apostate information to inform,
    teach or excuse they are unwittingly succumbing to apostasy
    themselves. Via these avenues apostasy then empowers
    apostasy. (By this I mean to define the influence that apostate
    ideology has over its victim, in that apostasy engenders pride
    within an individual and then feeds off this same pride in order to
    fortify the defection... And so the cycle continues...)

    It is not difficult to see therefore how this viscous circle
    deceptively stifles the intellect's ability to commit to `certainty' in
    faith when doubt inevitably becomes the by-product of inquiry into
    apostate reasoning. Consequently, regardless of the intellectual
    or social aptitude of the one searching through apostate
    material, there is often a betrayal, not necessarily of conviction of
    truth at first but of comprehending the insidious power inherent
    in apostate views. That is the REAL DANGER! By not
    understanding this, or even worse, considering themselves
    impervious to it's subtle allure, some have pulled the wool over
    their own eyes and subjected themselves to the masquerades
    of falsity, half truth and manipulated truth as being veritable truth
    itself! In an unfinished paper concerning the social dynamics of
    apostasy, this writer has listed three important reminders for
    consideration when confronted by the taunts of apostate
    ideology:

    "By attempting to elicit a favourable emotive response to their
    information, they [apostates] are therefore able to set the snare
    that leads to doubt. The exponent of this data understands this
    and is therefore better able to use such information to
    emphasize apparent discrepancies, hypocrisy's, inconsistencies
    and the like in order to play on the potential insecurities of the
    reader. Consequently, the recipient of apostate information is at
    a distinct disadvantage in three very profound ways.

    1. The recipient does not usually know if the author's words are
    true or false
    2. The recipient does not usually know if the author is mixing
    truth with falsehood
    3. The recipient is usually unable to verify allegations and/or
    assertions

    The apostate knows this and is therefore capable of
    manipulating the person who cannot or does not recognize the
    inherent dangers in considering apostate convictions."

    Although there is much more to be said concerning the
    administration of apostate dogma, perhaps the most important
    question if one is tempted to consider the viewpoint and/or
    doctrinal treaty of a defector is:

    "If it is important to comprehend an apostates argument `of
    scripture'... Why did God see it important to condemn it
    `through scripture?'" (compare Romans 16:17, Titus 3:10)

    The truth is, it is impossible to answer this question by affirming
    the initial premise without contravening Jehovah's injunction
    against defectors and their viewpoint. ***

    In pursuit of truth,

    xxxxxxx

    pseudo

  • Gizmo
    Gizmo

    I think this person is aiming this essay at people like Ray Franz, and insinuating that a person of his obvious intellect can and do often lead people of less comprehension astray solely for the purpose of self adulation and pride.

    Apostasy in the dictionary is defined as: Abandonment of religious faith, principles or party.

    In light of the above definition, the whole of the WTBTS are a group of apostates. Why?

    Because at some point in time they too abandoned their original religious faith, principles or party, be it Catholicism, Orthodox, or whatever other affiliation they had prior to adopting their new understanding!

    Those introduced into the organisation by parental association; have to at some point in time decide for themselves whether or not to adopt the teachings. However how many of those can honestly say they researched other options? This in the organisation is not encouraged in case they get swayed by apostates. And often those who try, do not have the resources or time, so it is taken for granted that their parents and offcourse the authors of the publications have the education, higher intellect and understanding, not forgetting the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

    So, who are they to question these men who are held in such high esteem? What possible motive could they have but your personal welfare?

    To question ones religion is NOT WRONG! To remain a part of a religion when evidence of corruptness and abuse is discovered and hidden, and manipulated IS WRONG!

    And to NOT forewarn others of these discoveries would be almost like condoning the religions actions.

    If some, after making these discoveries (and I personally feel this IS NOT the case for Ray Franz) try and "ALLURE" people to them in a capacity to lead them, then they too will soon be found guilty of promoting their own ideologies.

    The 3 points below made by our learned friend can and do equally apply to the WTBTS GB:-

    1. The recipient does not usually know if the author's words are
    true or false
    2. The recipient does not usually know if the author is mixing
    truth with falsehood
    3. The recipient is usually unable to verify allegations and/or
    assertions

    "If it is important to comprehend an apostates argument `of
    scripture'... Why did God see it important to condemn it
    `through scripture?'" (compare Romans 16:17, Titus 3:10)

    So who is the original Apostate dear writer, the WTBTS GB or those who abandoned their false teachings?

    Its a very circular argument you make and one that cannot be completely determined without ones ability to read the Heart.

    And we all know that is something we cannot do!

    In pursuit of HONESTY!

    Edited by - elderrepents on 30 December 2002 6:38:46

    Edited by - elderrepents on 30 December 2002 6:42:33

  • Debz
    Debz

    PROPOGANDA!!!!!

  • onacruse
    onacruse

    My very first impression is: this person is very fond of using big words in long sentences that can be expressed in short words and short sentences. (Admitting straight up that I fall prey to that weakness too )

    But what galls me the most is the insinuation against motive:

    It therefore searches for a loophole within the framework of ones moral sensibilities simply because
    it 'can', and it 'can' because it originates from the heart.
    A further point to consider when investigating the engine driving disaffection and apostasy is pride,
    The apostate knows this and is therefore capable of manipulating the person who cannot or does not recognize the inherent dangers in considering apostate convictions."

    And so where and when did this person gain such magnificent insight into the hearts of men and women that he can so confidently assert such things?

    Talk about Christian, oh yeah.

    Craig

  • pseudoxristos
    pseudoxristos

    Onacruse

    I would like to reply to it, with something that is total BS, uses lots of big words and never gets to the point, but I'm not the greatest with words. Any suggestions.

    pseudo

  • Introspection
    Introspection
    The exponent of this data understands this
    and is therefore better able to use such information to
    emphasize apparent discrepancies, hypocrisy's, inconsistencies
    and the like in order to play on the potential insecurities of the
    reader.

    Oh this is very telling. The fact is the insecurity was there in the reader already, it's not created through information processing, only activated.

    I'm not too interested in arguing over content these days, but I find you can pretty much cut to the chase if you can just tell what the person's state of consciousness is and simply point that out. It doesn't take a lot for an insecure person to become insecure, because it's only a matter of showing it or not. Whatever happend to the "peace of God that excels all thought"? If it does indeed excels all thought then none of this applies, you can't blame it on information. The obvious conclusion is that the reader does not have such peace - yet what are they supposed to do to get it? Stuff themselves with more thoughts, which of course only goes to support a very fragile "spiritual" ego.

    Now I wouldn't just leave it at that, because of course the witnesses would yell foul and how it's all a matter of tearing down [something that wasn't really there in the first place] rather than building up. But maybe I would point to the fact that if the peace isn't there in the course of the conversation, doesn't that indicate that what they're doing isn't really cutting the mustard? Now this would work a lot better if you keep your cool throughout it all, simply because when you know the truth there's nothing to be insecure about, and people can see that. You can get into specific issues I suppose, but I think this is far more direct.

    It is for good reason then that Jehovah admonished
    his people not to take themselves too seriously when he
    warned,

    "Pride is before a crash and a haughty spirit before stumbling"
    (Proverbs 16:18)

    So let me get this straight.. Taking your religious beliefs too seriously would be what? Of course, if you're not prideful about it the alternative is to be insecure. It really doesn't matter what the beliefs are, but isn't it really pride that denies the fact that they are only beliefs?

  • pseudoxristos
    pseudoxristos

    Intro,

    Interesting approach. It would probably be best to simply cut to the chase and not waste time aurguing the content. Thanks for the comments.

    pseudo

  • Scarlet Pimpernel
    Scarlet Pimpernel

    We had one of these in our Congregation Knows a lot of big words but no gray stuff upstairs. As most in the congregation were uneducated and ignorant he was esteemed as an intellectual and he loved it. Could only happen in the Borg

  • pseudoxristos
    pseudoxristos

    Hey, I found a BS generator. This essay actually makes more sense.

    http://www.elsewhere.org/cgi-bin/postmodern/

    My reply on the JW forum.

    XXXX,

    I think that Pickett observed this same phenomena in his
    essay, "Constructivist narrative in the works of Fellini". Here is a
    brief excerpt from it.

    Sincerely,

    xxxxxxx

    Constructivist narrative in the works of Fellini
    N. Rudolf Pickett

    Department of Future Studies, University of Massachusetts, Amherst

    1. Fellini and neosemantic discourse

    If one examines the cultural paradigm of consensus, one is faced with
    a choice: either accept constructivist narrative or conclude that
    class, surprisingly, has intrinsic meaning, but only if the cultural
    paradigm of consensus is invalid; otherwise, we can assume that
    context is created by the collective unconscious. The premise of
    Debordist image suggests that government is capable of significant
    form.
    But a number of dematerialisms concerning the role of the observer as
    poet exist. The primary theme of Dietrich's[1] analysis of
    presemanticist theory is the difference between sexual identity and
    sexuality.
    Therefore, Scuglia[2] states that the works of Fellini are
    postmodern. The characteristic theme of the works of Fellini is the
    dialectic, and eventually the rubicon, of subtextual class. Thus, an
    abundance of sublimations concerning Debordist image may be
    discovered. Baudrillard's critique of constructivist narrative holds
    that the significance of the observer is social comment.

    2. Narratives of futility

    "Society is part of the defining characteristic of consciousness,"
    says Lacan. But the main theme of McElwaine's[3] model of the
    cultural paradigm of consensus is the bridge between class and art.
    If Debordist image holds, we have to choose between dialectic
    narrative and the neosemioticist paradigm of reality.
    In the works of Fellini, a predominant concept is the concept of
    dialectic sexuality. Thus, any number of theories concerning not, in
    fact, materialism, but submaterialism exist. Bataille promotes the
    use of the cultural paradigm of consensus to deconstruct society.
    The characteristic theme of the works of Fellini is the
    meaninglessness, and subsequent absurdity, of neosemanticist sexual
    identity. In a sense, the primary theme of Dietrich's[4] critique of
    constructivist narrative is not theory, but pretheory. Many
    sublimations concerning the textual paradigm of context may be
    revealed.
    "Art is impossible," says Lacan. But the subject is contextualised
    into a cultural paradigm of consensus that includes language as a
    whole. The premise of constructivist narrative implies that
    narrativity is part of the dialectic of sexuality, but only if
    culture is equal to consciousness.
    If one examines Debordist image, one is faced with a choice: either
    reject neoconstructive narrative or conclude that discourse is a
    product of the masses. Thus, the main theme of the works of Fellini
    is a self-referential reality. In Amarcord, Fellini affirms Debordist
    image; in La Dolce Vita he analyses the cultural paradigm of
    consensus.
    "Sexual identity is unattainable," says Bataille. However, Sontag
    suggests the use of constructivist narrative to challenge class
    divisions. The characteristic theme of Wilson's[5] analysis of the
    cultural paradigm of consensus is the difference between society and
    sexual identity.
    If one examines Debordist image, one is faced with a choice: either
    accept the cultural paradigm of consensus or conclude that
    narrativity is used to reinforce the status quo, given that
    constructivist narrative is valid. Thus, Marx promotes the use of
    subcultural Marxism to read and deconstruct class. The main theme of
    the works of Fellini is a patriarchialist whole.
    In the works of Fellini, a predominant concept is the distinction
    between destruction and creation. It could be said that Lacan
    suggests the use of constructivist narrative to attack class
    divisions. Lyotard uses the term 'the cultural paradigm of consensus'
    to denote the role of the artist as participant.
    But the characteristic theme of Scuglia's[6] model of constructivist
    narrative is the defining characteristic, and hence the absurdity, of
    neosemiotic culture. Foucault promotes the use of the cultural
    paradigm of consensus to modify class.
    It could be said that the subject is interpolated into a
    constructivist narrative that includes consciousness as a totality.
    Von Ludwig[7] holds that we have to choose between Debordist image
    and patriarchialist narrative.
    But an abundance of discourses concerning the bridge between class
    and society exist. Derrida suggests the use of constructivist
    narrative to challenge outmoded perceptions of class.
    In a sense, Sontag uses the term 'postsemantic narrative' to denote
    the role of the writer as poet. Several deappropriations concerning
    constructivist narrative may be discovered.
    It could be said that Marx promotes the use of dialectic objectivism
    to deconstruct and modify sexual identity. Any number of discourses
    concerning the genre of pretextual society exist.
    However, the collapse, and subsequent economy, of constructivist
    narrative depicted in Stone's Natural Born Killers emerges again in
    JFK. An abundance of theories concerning the cultural paradigm of
    consensus may be found.
    Thus, in Heaven and Earth, Stone denies constructivist narrative; in
    JFK, however, he analyses the materialist paradigm of consensus. The
    main theme of the works of Stone is the role of the reader as poet.
    But Sartre suggests the use of Debordist image to challenge the
    status quo. Baudrillard uses the term 'Sontagist camp' to denote a
    self-falsifying reality.
    Therefore, several narratives concerning the role of the writer as
    reader exist. Derrida uses the term 'Debordist image' to denote the
    common ground between sexual identity and society.

    1. Dietrich, B. I. A. (1977) The Meaninglessness of Consensus:
    Debordist image in the works of Cage. O'Reilly & Associates
    2. Scuglia, S. V. ed. (1986) Debordist image and constructivist
    narrative. Schlangekraft
    3. McElwaine, M. (1970) Reassessing Expressionism: Constructivist
    narrative and Debordist image. Yale University Press
    4. Dietrich, U. G. ed. (1994) Debordist image and constructivist
    narrative. University of Massachusetts Press
    5. Wilson, Y. (1981) Dialectic Constructions: Constructivist
    narrative and Debordist image. University of Illinois Press
    6. Scuglia, O. Y. ed. (1997) Libertarianism, Baudrillardist
    simulation and Debordist image. Schlangekraft
    7. von Ludwig, I. Q. E. (1978) The Meaninglessness of Sexual
    identity: Debordist image in the works of Stone. University of
    Michigan Press

  • Gizmo
    Gizmo

    Very good introspection

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