Evolution vs. Creation (on Earth) (page 4)

dubla

stinky-

did you really think you could start this thread, and the evolutionists wouldnt attempt to turn it into another debate?

aa

rem

There are a few conundrums like that, in the genetic world, that make me pause to think...

It is more difficult, perhaps even impossible, to fit any theory of Special Creation with the facts of genetics than it is for Evolution. In fact, DNA evidence only strengthened the Theory of Evolution even though Darwin and his contemporaries had no idea it existed. The theory that is more congruent with the facts and makes accurate predictions is always the better theory. Evolution is such a theory.

rem

Realist

evolution...because there is a ton of evidence supporting it.

in addition there is no evidence suggesting that there is an invisible 'thing' whatching over us.

how the universe started and if it has a deeper meaning or not is a matter of personal preference...there is no true evidence for or against intelligent vs. accidential origin of the universe.

Realist

There are a few conundrums like that, in the genetic world, that make me pause to think

which are?

peacefulpete

Myonself...Every event is unique and statistically impossible (post hoc) after the fact. My sitting in the living room with a blue shirt and brown pants, a tooth ache, my cat on the couch, the sun is shinning my wifes plant bloomed today, a spider on the ceiling, etc etc etc.....If I were now to argue that it MUST be by design that the events of this day were exactly as they were based upon the incredible set of coinsidences that have occurred, you would not be likely to be impressed with my logic. Yet the deeper I detailed the days events the abundance of "proof" would begin to be convincing to some that I am correct. In fact statistically the odds of the billions of converging events of the day happened as they did would make it impossible to anticipate ever happening. In other words we are the product of unique and many varied events each day taking place yet none of those events alone appear to be miraculous so we do not typically attribute each day to the work of supernatural forces. Science today has demonstrated that the physical universe is not mysterious (or random)just complex. No single event appears to be miraculous so why do some conclude that the net result of these events is the result of supernatural forces? Only if we first presumme a forgone conclusion to history might we be inclined to think that way. This is not surprising as we do tend to imagine ourselves as important, perhaps this is healthy but it is not objective. This is where science and philosophy part.

Edited by - peacefulpete on 3 January 2003 16:21:32

MYOHNSEPH

"we are the product of unique and many varied events each day taking place yet none of those events alone appear to be miraculous so we do not typically attribute each day to the work of supernatural forces."

Peacefulpete, our lives are indeed affected and influenced each day by countless incidents which have not been anticipated, are not by design and are certainly not miraculous. However, a great deal of what constitutes our lives each day is by design and/or the result of conscious decisions made by ourselves, or others, or the cat or even the spider. But we know the difference, don't we! Having a degree of inteligence, we are able to discern between accidently stepping on the cat's tail and deliberately doing so. How? Because we set criteria for the things we see and experience in life and we generally know the difference between that which has intent and purpose and that which does not. Remember the movie "Contact"? The radio signals which were intercepted from outer space were judged to be of intelligent origin, because they met the criteria for design and intelligence. Of course that was just fiction, but the principle is a most valid and scientifically accepted one. So the question is: Do the principles or laws of physics which have brought mankind and the universe to it's magnificent present state meet the criteria for intelligence and design? To my mind, the answer is yes.

rem

Do the principles or laws of physics which have brought mankind and the universe to it's magnificent present state meet the criteria for intelligence and design? To my mind, the answer is yes.

Many people come to that conclusion. But then there is the other side of the coin. What kind of an 'intelligence' would purposely create a world where rocks smash into each other in space? A place where bacteria, viruses, and parasites harm many other forms of life. A world where predation, pain, and suffering is the norm. A world where animals are poorly designed for their environments and mass extinctions have plagued all forms of life.

Some, like myself, would really question how intelligent this 'intelligence' really is, especially if human life is reason for the universe. But what do I know... maybe an intelligent creator did create this universe to hold rocks and then life evolved accidently? If there is one thing this universe is good for, it's for storing rocks.

That doesn't even touch the question of what 'intelligence' could have created the 'intelligence' that allegedly created us. If you believe that this world is so well designed that an 'intelligence' is required, it is nothing less than special pleading to accept that the 'intelligence' that created us does not, in turn, require superior 'intelligence' that created it. Otherwise, what you are really admitting is that it is possible to have complex 'design' without 'intelligence'... and that's what atheists have been saying all this time.

rem

gumby

A world where animals are poorly designed for their environments and mass extinctions have plagued all forms of life.

Are you talking about in Africa where drought kills millins of animals, and all the caribou that die crossing the waters elsewhere?

That's mans fault rem......ask the religionist.( christian at least )

LucidSky

What kind of an 'intelligence' would purposely create a world where rocks smash into each other in space? A place where bacteria, viruses, and parasites harm many other forms of life. A world where predation, pain, and suffering is the norm. A world where animals are poorly designed for their environments and mass extinctions have plagued all forms of life.

Hey! The Intelligence doesn't have to be benovolent, omniscient or omnipotent. It/They would appear to have at least some of those qualities though.

That doesn't even touch the question of what 'intelligence' could have created the 'intelligence' that allegedly created us. If you believe that this world is so well designed that an 'intelligence' is required, it is nothing less than special pleading to accept that the 'intelligence' that created us does not, in turn, require superior 'intelligence' that created it. Otherwise, what you are really admitting is that it is possible to have complex 'design' without 'intelligence'... and that's what atheists have been saying all this time.

Maybe our Intelligence has an Intelligence over it too? And one over Him. And so on. It must be "Intelligences' all the way up! Maybe one day we'll create a universe we can call our own...

LucidSky

No single event appears to be miraculous so why do some conclude that the net result of these events is the result of supernatural forces

I would say the most miraculous event that ever occured was the first self-replicating molecule. I think we'll figure it out one day, but that event changed the destiny of our planet from void to life.

Evolution vs. Creation (on Earth)

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