Is Satan really a liar, and the father of the lie?
by Israel Ricky Gonzales 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Israel Ricky Gonzales
GENSIS 2:15-17Jehovah God took the man and settled him in the garden of Eʹden to cultivate it and to take care of it. 16 Jehovah God also gave this command to the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.”GENESIS 3:1-2At this the woman said to the serpent: “We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden. 3 But God has said about the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden: ‘You must not eat from it, no, you must not touch it; otherwise you will die.’”EVE EVIDENTLY DID NOT KNOW THE COMMAND FROM GOD. SHE DID NOT SAY THE TREE BY NAME, REFERRING TO IT AS THE TREE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GARDEN, AND ASSUMED THAT MERELY TOUCHING IT WOULD RESULT IN DEATH.GENESIS 3:4, 54 At this the serpent said to the woman: “You certainly will not die. 5 For God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad.”THIS IS SATAN'S CLAIM. DID HE REALLY LIE?GENESIS 3:7Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized that they were naked. So they sewed fig leaves together and made loin coverings for themselves.SATAN SAID THAT THEIR EYES WOULD BE OPEN. IT HAPPENED AND THATS WHEN THEY REALIZED THAT THEY WERE NAKED.ADDITIONALLY, COULD TWO HUMANS, WHO DID NOT KNOW THAT THEY WERE NAKED, POSSIBLY COMPREHEND THE CONSEQUENCES OF EATING THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT AND COMPREHEND THE CONCEPT OF DEATH?GENESIS 3:22Jehovah God then said: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad.."DID SATAN REALLY LIE WHEN HE SAID: "You certainly will not die. For God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad.”?ADAM AND EVE DID NOT CERTAINLY DIE THE DAY THEY ATE OF THE FRUIT. ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE, ADAM WENT ON TO LIVE FOR 930 YEARS, SO HE DID NOT DIE IN THAT DAY AS GOD HAD FORETOLD.SOME ARGUE THAT 1,000 YEARS IS AS ONE DAY TO GOD, SO TECHNICALLY THEY DID DIE IN THAT DAY. BUT DID ADAM KNOW THAT 1,000 YEARS ARE AS ONE DAY TO GOD AND THAT IF HE ATE OF THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT, HE WOULD GO ON TO LIVE 930 YEARS, AND THEN DIE BEFORE HE REACHED 1,000 YEARS OLD?OTHERS ARGUE THAT IF ADAM AND EVE DID NOT EAT OF THE FRUIT, THEY WOULD NOT HAVE DIED, THEREFORE LIVING FOREVER. BUT THERE IS NO INDICATION FROM GOD THAT THEY WOULD INDEED LIVE FOREVER. IN FACT, HE DID NOT ALLOW ADAM AND EVE TO PARTAKE OF A TREE THAT WOULD ALLOW THEM TO LIVE FOREVER, EVEN ORDERING AN ANGEL TO PERPETUALLY PROTECT THE TREE FROM ALL FUTURE HUMANS.GOD ACKNOWLEDGED THAT AFTER EATING OF THE FRUIT, THE FIRST COUPLE BECAME LIKE GOD, KNOWING GOOD AND BAD, JUST AS SATAN STATED TO THE FIRST COUPLE.BY TAKING IN KNOWLEDGE, THEIR EYES WERE FINALLY OPENED, THEY REALIZED THAT THEY WERE NAKED, THEY DID BECOME LIKE GOD KNOWING GOOD AND BAD, AND THEY DID NOT CERTAINLY DIE IN THE DAY OF THEIR EATING OF THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT.SO, WAS SATAN REALLY A LIAR, THE FATHER OF THE LIE, AND A MANSLAYER FROM THE BEGINNING? -
OrphanCrow
Satan invented cockroaches. -
sloppyjoe2
Genesis 3:22 Jehovah God then said: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad. Now in order that he may not put his hand out and take fruit also from the tree of life and eat and live forever, 23 With that Jehovah God expelled him from the garden of E′den to cultivate the ground from which he had been taken.
This is a topic I never really can get anyone to discuss. But I would like to point out that as JWs we were taught that Adam and Eve sinned and therefore that was the moment that their bodies began to die. The bible indicates that this is not true in my opinion. As you can see at the end of verse 22, if God had allowed them to stay in the garden, they would have still lived forever by eating from the tree of life, this would be even after they "sinned". In other words they still would have lived forever even after "sinning". So eating the fruit did not cause their bodies to start dying, but not being able to eat from the tree of life is what caused their bodies to start dying.
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Israel Ricky Gonzales
That's a good perspective. I personally don't think Adam and Eve were created to live forever. Like you mentioned, SloppyJoe2, it was by eating of the tree of life that they continued living.
But I don't think Satan was lying and I do believe God was withholding something/information from the first couple
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John Aquila
ADDITIONALLY, COULD TWO HUMANS, WHO DID NOT KNOW THAT THEY WERE NAKED, POSSIBLY COMPREHEND THE CONSEQUENCES OF EATING THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT AND COMPREHEND THE CONCEPT OF DEATH?How could they not know they were naked? What man who was introduced to a Perfect, beautiful, naked woman, with no cable TV or internet, not figure out in a few minutes what to do with that woman?The story is made that way to make an excuse for all the suffering the children of Adam and Eve have had to experience. They "Inherited Sin"Can we really believe that months or years passed before Adam figured out what to do with Eve? Did it really take a bite of a fruit to realize where what went in where? -
GodZoo
GENESIS 3:22
Jehovah God then said: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad.."What were they before knowing good and bad? Mindless obedient wind up robots? If they had no idea of good and bad how could they possibly understand that eating the fruit was something bad? Simply following an instruction or warning or threat: (ie, 'do that and I will kill you') is not knowledge in any sense of the word.Doesn't one need to knowledge of what bad is in order to be able to exercise one's God given conscience and make a free and intelligent choice not to do such a thing? Or did the god of Genesis want only mindless obedience?Proverbs 13:16: 'All who are prudent act with knowledge'.Acting without knowledge then must make one an idiot.
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flipper
No, Satan wasn't the father of ANYTHING. Satan is an unreality- an illusion created by religionists to keep humans in unnecessary fear. So is the concept of Adam and Eve. Just fantasy stories put in the Bible by humans to create unnecessary guilt in people as well. I wouldn't sweat the " Adam & Eve " thing or " Satan " thing if I were you. There are too many other things to be concerned about in real life -
Diogenesister
"Here the man has become like one of US"
POLYTHEISM !
Jeho talking to his goddy mates
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OrphanCrow
flipper: No, Satan wasn't the father of ANYTHING.
But...but...where did those f***ing cockroaches come from?
:p
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Israel Ricky Gonzales
I am not concerned about the fairy tale holy bible. Just bringing out contradictions that have probably been already said before.