Paradise: in Heaven or on Earth?

by artful 35 Replies latest watchtower bible

artful

The term "Paradise Earth" is one frequently used by the WTS.
While researching the scriptural references to "paradise" (and the official WTS explanation for each), I was surprised with what I found regarding the location of paradise.
These are the only three places that the word "paradise" can be found in the Bible.
I would be interested in any comments about this idea.
Cheers
Artful
__________
Paradise references in the New Testament (there is no use of the word in the Old Testament)
Luke 23
43Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth today you will be with me in paradise."
COMMENT- Of the 3 occurrences of the word paradise, this is the only one that is claimed by the WTS to refer to an earthly paradise, however, to determine Jesus' teaching of where paradise was located, see his words to John in Revelation below. Incidentally, I don't cite this scripture to prove that the criminal on the cross beside Jesus would be in paradise with him "that day" as he would certainly not have ascended to heaven ahead of Jesus.
2 Corinthians 12
1I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. 2I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know--God knows. 3And I know that this man--whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows-- 4was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell.
COMMENT- Paul's reference to the location of paradise is in the heavens. (The WTS "Insight on the Scriptures" agrees with this thought).
Revelation 2
7He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
COMMENT- Jesus words (written by John) set the location of paradise as in the heavens. (The WTS "Insight on the Scriptures" agrees with this thought).
musky

artful, Great post. It looks like the paradise is in heaven rather than on earth. It never mattered to me if I would be in heaven or on earth. I hope that I will be remembered by God and I trust that I would be happy at either place.
LB

Oh sorry, thought this was a sex link.
bikerchic

LB you perv!
Katie (wondering why I even looked at a Bible topic thread)
JosephMalik

While researching the scriptural references to "paradise" (and the official WTS explanation for each), I was surprised with what I found regarding the location of paradise.
Luke 23:43Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth today you will be with me in paradise."

Artful,
Earth is the location of this paradise.
artful said: 2 Corinthians 12:1I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. 2I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know--God knows. 3And I know that this man--whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows-- 4was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell.
COMMENT- Paul's reference to the location of paradise is in the heavens. (The WTS "Insight on the Scriptures" agrees with this thought).
The Watchtower is wrong. Does that surprise anyone? The location of this paradise is still earth but under the authority of Christ. Just like the paradise described to the thief this vision describes this third heaven that is yet to come. You should already know that Heaven is a Jewish way to express authority and rule. Paul experienced the Law Covenant. That is one heaven. Then he experienced the rule of Rome that is his second heaven. And now Paul experienced the rule of Christ. That is his third heaven and the ultimate experience for him. It was paradise alright just as he described, the same paradise our Lord promised to the thief but future, a revelation Paul was not permitted to describe in detail.
Artful said: Revelation 2:7He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
COMMENT- Jesus words (written by John) set the location of paradise as in the heavens. (The WTS "Insight on the Scriptures" agrees with this thought).
The Watchtower is wrong again. The tree of life will be in the city called New Jerusalem. And this New Jerusalem comes down to earth when Christ returns to rule men, nations in fact (not non-human beings) that will live in it.
21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Since this city is to be here with mankind (not spirit kind) how is it that the Watchtower or anyone else for that matter teaches that this paradise will be somewhere else at that time?
This is the hope of the faith, a kingdom here on earth, something the disciples themselves expected even after fourty additional days of intensive teachings regarding this kingdom by our Lord.
Acts 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

Now after being witnesses to His resurrection and with all this additional training would they be confused as the where this kingdom, this paradise of God would be? NO! They just did not understand that it was yet future. Their question shows this clearly, notice:
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Kingdom of God, Kingdom of the Heavens, Kindom to Israel, third heaven, Paradise, New Jerusalem, all ways to express this same kingdom here on earth to be ruled by Christ.
Joseph
Edited by - JosephMalik on 1 January 2003 17:25:51
artful

Musky: thanks for your comment. I tend to agree, that in some ways it really doesn't matter where this paradise is located. However, as an aid to speaking with JWs it's interesting to note that even according to their own theology, the expression "paradise" seems (more often then not) to refer to heaven.
LB: It IS a sex link - just a very subliminal one! Keep looking ;-)
Joseph: Thanks for your input. I know your belief is that no man (either flesh or spirit) will ascend to heaven, only Jesus. I actually responded to this idea in detail in another thread...see:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=42689&site=3
Cheers
Artful
musky

Luke 23:43Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth today you will be with me in paradise."

Earth is the location of this paradise.
Since Jesus said that this man would be "with" him, is it your belief that Jesus will reside on the earth also?
Kenneson

According to Phil. 3:20 the Christian's citizenship is in heaven. He looks forward to a home which God will build for him in heaven (2 Cor. 5:1-5). The Christian inheritance (1 Peter 1:4), reward (Matt. 5:12) and treasure (Matt. 6:20 and Col. 1:5) are all in heaven. The Father and Jesus prepare "mansions" in heaven for the disciple (John 14:1-3). The names of the disciples are written in the records of heaven (Luke 10:20), and those who rise with Christ are with Him take into heaven ( Thess. 4:16). The risen, like Christ who is their prototype, are endowed with the qualities of the heavenly body, which differs from the earthly body: incorruptible, glorious, powerful, and spiritual (2 Cor. 15:42-49) and Paul is certain that flesh and blood, the present body, cannot share in the kingdom of God (1 Cor. 15:50; 2 Cor. 5:2)
Eph. 4:4 speaks of the Christian's one hope. Is it paradise earth? See Eph. 2:6. In 2 Tim. 4:18 Paul states that "The Lord will deliver me from every wicked work and will save (me) for his heavenly kindgom." In Acts 7:55, 59 Scripture states: "But he (Stephen) being full of holy spirit, gazed into heaven and caught sight of God's glory and of Jesus standing at God's right hand...And they went on casting stones at Stephen as he made appeals and said: 'Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.' " Stephen went to heaven and was not promised life on paradise earth. Of Christians, Heb. 3:1 calls them "holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling..." 2 Cor. 5:8 indicates that we "are well preased rather to become absent from the body and to make our home with the Lord." And where is the Lord? See John 14:1-3; 2 Cor. 4:17, 18
While Jesus' disciples were looking for an earthly kingdom, Jesus corrected this view by stating that his kingdom was not from an earthly source. (John 18:36)
Rev. 21:10-21--Is the New Jerusalem going to have these literal dimensions? And just how do you expect paradise to be restored without the sun and moon, with neither night nor day? Rev. 21:23-25. Is there going to be a literal river there flowing out of the throne of God and trees of life growing on each side of the river? Remember that Rev. 21:1 says the "sea is no more." Rev. 22:1-5 Is this city going to be localized or earthwide? And what will become of the new heaven of Rev. 21:1?
Where is the great crowd? On earth or in heaven? See Rev. 19:1
Is Mount Zion and the New Jerusalem going to be on earth? (Rev. 14:1) Not according to Gal. 4:26; see also Heb. 12:22 and Heb. 11:9-10, 13-16
JosephMalik

Since Jesus said that this man would be "with" him, is it your belief that Jesus will reside on the earth also?
Musky,
Yes. At least for the symbolic 1000 years. He will rule on what is called the throne of David, eat and drink with His disciples here. This is also what the men in white robes confirmed when they said:
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Luke 22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
All this will be done here where the New Jerusalem will also be.
Joseph
JosephMalik

According to Phil. 3:20 the Christian's citizenship is in heaven.

Kenneson,

The Kingdom of God, Kingdom of heaven, third heaven, Paradise, New Jerusalem that we are discussing is future. It does not exist here on earth yet. It is our hope in Christ who returned to God until this day and hour would come. Sure that is where our citizenship would be. This is not what we are talking about here. We are discussing where this kingdom will be AT THAT TIME. Did Paul ever say that we will live in heaven? Did he ever say that we will go to heaven to be with God? No!

Kenneson said: He looks forward to a home which God will build for him in heaven (2 Cor. 5:1-5).

These verses are discussing the immortal body that we will receive from God and not some place where we will live. Would you please break down the texts and prove your point if I missed it?

Kenneson said: The Christian inheritance (1 Peter 1:4), reward (Matt. 5:12) and treasure (Matt. 6:20 and Col. 1:5) are all in heaven.

Same as above. Where does it say we will live there?
Kenneson said: 'Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.' " Stephen went to heaven and was not promised life on paradise earth.
No this is not true! Stephen did not go to heaven or anywhere else. His spirit, the spirit of anyone for that matter that dies returns to God and will be resurrected if found in the book of life.

You go on and on like this as if any verses with the word heaven in them or some inspirational comment does it for you somehow even if it is talking about something entirely different like our faith and hope like Stephen's comments. If you have proof please show it clearly and cleanly so that we may all learn.

Joseph
Edited by - JosephMalik on 1 January 2003 20:41:23

Paradise: in Heaven or on Earth?

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