help an ex fundie understand

by wonderer 21 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  wonderer

  This is my first posting , even though I've started to at least 7 times. I've been reading this forum for 3 months trying to understand how JW's live their lives away from the work environment and how it affects their life decisions. I'll explain why I need to know in the rest of the post. I've seen a lot of emotion and compassion here and hope I can get some of the answers I'm looking for.

  Here's my situation. I'm an early 50's married man with grown children that spent 20 years in a fundamental Baptist church, which we left a few years ago mainly because of differing opinions with people and the personnal inability to "measure up". We now lead a typical moderate life style - moderate alcohol use, sleeping in on Sunday, catching up on a lot of music.

  Through my work situation (different facilities seperated by 200 miles) , I've become acquainted with an attractive ,intelligent young lady. As we got to know each other, I realized there was something different about her, so I asked the religion question and was stunned when her answer was JW. Years of Baptist teachings and arguments with JW's came flooding back. I knew most of the doctrinal issues ,but am wondering what the mechanics of the life style was about and also what she can do with her life. I should add that she has been divorced for while and that she converted as a late teenager. She has not tried to witness (or whatever it's called) to me. We have developed a pretty close friendship based on very similar personalities and mutual work experiences.

  I know she goes to Tues & Thurs meetings but how much time is required because she seems to have very little free time? How does her marital status come into play (I don't know any of her specifics)? Is there full time JW service options for her? Can she continue higher education? She definitely has the talent. From what I've read in this group , it seems that her potential can be totally wasted if she follows the "rules", is that a correct observation? Our friendship has deepened but Is there a disaster impending or an area to stay away from? I'm not talking male-female ,as we've both got that under control.

  I know this is a disjointed post and it may not be in the right forum, but I am confused and concerned about a good person and friend. I've also left out some details for confidentiality. Thanks for reading.
• 

  Joyzabel

  Welcome to the board, Wonderer.

  So you are trying to find out about the JWs lifestyle and how it impacts on your friend.

  A JW is obligated to go to 5 hour-long meetings a week,1 on Tuesday, 2 on Thursday and 2 on Sunday. Plus prepare for those meetings. Also visit with people before and after those meetings.

  She is obligated to go preach to other people at least 10 hours a month, or they make you feel guilty if you cant go out that much. That usually takes every Saturday to accomplish. And if she has extra time, she's encouraged to go out preaching field service even more. (guilt, guilt)

  As far as higher education goes, JWs encourage people to go out in field service instead of educating themselves.

  Most JWs that you may meet are kind, intelligent people. Just so controlled in a high control group they dont know who they really are. They are kept busy so that they don't have time to think on their own. I recommend reading The True Believer by Eric Hoffer on mass movements.

  j2bf
• 

  onacruse

  Wonderer, welcome! In addition to what joy says, I might add:

  How does her marital status come into play...?

  Women can't do much of anything in the congregation anyway except make babies and go out in service. Her marital status would only be a factor if she's on the hunt for a husband. Then the issue would be whether or not she is "free" to remarry (i.e. divorced on grounds of adultery).

  Is there full time JW service options for her?

  Assuming she "qualifies" (i.e. no questions about her loyalty and conformity) she can be a pioneer (likely), special pioneer (possibly), Bethelite (unlikely), or even Gileadite (very unlikely), and spend the rest of her natural life in full-time servitude.

  it seems that her potential can be totally wasted if she follows the "rules", is that a correct observation?

  Correction: her potential will be totally wasted.

  Our friendship has deepened but Is there a disaster impending or an area to stay away from?

  Don't underestimate the power of the dark side. The WTS has spent 100 years perfecting a seductive and insidious religion that sometimes ensnares even the most wary.

  Craig
• 

  nightwarrior

  You say your 2oo miles away from home,

  sorry but the feeling ime geting from your posting is that you want to know how you can get the ladys knickers of ,your not really interested in anything else,aint you old enough to be her farther,guess your in love with a younger woman and want advice on how to break her down .

  my advice leave her alone
• 

  TR

  We now lead a typical moderate life style - moderate alcohol use, sleeping in on Sunday, catching up on a lot of music.

  Sounds like you got THAT under control!

  Now, as for the girl, I'm inclined to agree with nightwarrior. Leave her alone. Nothing but trouble unless of course she leaves the 'hovahs. But even then, years of guilt, shame, loss of family, etc., will make her pretty vulnerable. And, since you're (happily?)married, probably not a good idea to develop a "close" relationship anyway.

  TR

  Edited by - TR on 4 January 2003 19:6:51
• 

  Gizmo

  Nightwarrior and TR

  Spot on, I get the same exact impression.
• 

  Exetazo

  Hello Wonderer

  Well, if you really want to know about Jehovahs Witnesses this is the wrong site. Everyone here are ex- witnesses &/or who have an axe to grind.

  There is a lot of inaccurate information here too. For example, joy2bfree says that:

  JW's MUST do 10 hours of preaching a month. WRONG, each one does what they can. You do it for God not for men.

  JW's can't pursue further/higher education. WRONG. They are remined to examine motives & purpose of such.

  JW's are controlled. WRONG everything a JW does is voluntary. Taught they are & taught how to study, to examine. Any group of people needs some organization, just like the congregations in the first century. Were christians controlled then?

  JW's must do what they are told or they will be made to feel guilty. PARTIALLY WRONG. People become JW's out of free choice. They do as much/ as little as they can & are accountable to God, not men. If one does feel guilty then that is a personal feeling, generated for a number of different reasons. The JW org' is not to blame if one feels giulty or pressured. After all, they joined the JW's volunarily & can leave any time they want.

  Wonderer, this is not the formum for accurate info on JW's. Try the official webite or visit the local congregation for yourself.

  Regards

  Exetazo
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  TR

  Well, if you really want to know about Jehovahs Witnesses this is the wrong site. Everyone here are ex- witnesses &/or who have an axe to grind.

  Exetazo,

  You are so full of crap your eyes are brown. This forum has more former elders and Bethel people than you'll find on a hard core 'hovah web site.

  Techically, most of what you say is right, however, don't forget the UNWRIITEN laws and guilt trips if you don't do what you stated.

  You sound like a text book 'hovah apologist, which, in my opinion, is a hard core 'hovah that knows very little if anything about the history and techniques of the WTS's GB. Now get off this site or I'll turn you in.

  TR
• 

  Brummie

  Hello Wonderer, as to your first question and friendship with this JW lady, I would suggest you discuss the issue with your wife...she probably needs a hug from you right now, poor woman.

  Now to learn a few lessons from Exetazo:

  Well, if you really want to know about Jehovahs Witnesses this is the wrong site. Everyone here are ex- witnesses &/or who have an axe to grind.

  Lesson 1, according to Exetazo, there is no honorable way to leave the WT, if this lady friend of yours leaves, she will be viewed by Exetazo and all JWs as one who has an axe to grind, or put simply, a bad person. That is negative and does nothing for a persons self esteem, so she will need help from this sort of abuse and may not be able to leave due to the pressures of the JW community who will label her just as Exetazo labels everyone here, though he/she doesnt even know everyone here. If she does leave she will find support here.

  There is a lot of inaccurate information here too. For example, joy2bfree says that: JW's MUST do 10 hours of preaching a month. WRONG, each one does what they can. You do it for God not for men

  Lesson 2, There is also a lot of accurate information here too, but to be a JW means you have to think in black and white and pretend everything is black outside of the org! to do any hours on the doors as requested by the WT is the equivelant of working for God as EXetazo points out. So JWS believe they "place" the WTowers on the doors for God" Because God wants you to place the Watchtowers. "You do it for God not for men"If you dont do those hours you are considered inactive and therefore not a JW, or not "A witness for God" and will be destroyed by God on the day of his wrath....see what your lady friend is up against? Its going to be tough..

  JW's can't pursue further/higher education. WRONG. They are remined to examine motives & purpose of such.

  Lesson 3: JWS are reminded to examine the motives and purpose of why they want to "Polish the brass on a sinking ship", in other words: Why do you want to persue a career in a world that is going to be destroyed very soon? Why not spend those hours on the doors instead of at college or university? You stay on the sinking ship and you will drown with all the rest on Jah's great day of wrath! Does college sound appealing now?

  JW's are controlled. WRONG everything a JW does is voluntary.

  Lesson 4. This is correct. JWs are voluntary contolled. They are each responsible for allowing a group of men in brooklyn to control the way they think.

  Any group of people needs some organization, just like the congregations in the first century. Were christians controlled then?

  Lesson 5. Exet is led to believe that The Watchtower is a typical example of how Christianity exsisted in the 1st century. Were Christians controlled then? No! But then again the Watchtower didnt exsist.

  JW's must do what they are told or they will be made to feel guilty. PARTIALLY WRONG.

  Lesson 6, they will only "Partially" make you feel guilty. Like 95 %...doesnt sound so bad now does it?

  People become JW's out of free choice.

  And then that free chioce is taken away...they are no longer free to disagree with anything the Watchtower teaches.

  The JW org' is not to blame if one feels giulty or pressured. After all, they joined the JW's volunarily & can leave any time they want.

  Lesson 7. The JW org is partially not to blame, YOU would to blame for allowing a group of sinful old men heap up the guilt on you. See lesson 4.

  Wonderer, this is not the formum for accurate info on JW's. Try the official webite or visit the local congregation for yourself.

  Go to the Watchtowers official website and do a search for Organ transplants and see how many people it killed during the years 1967 - 1980 because it told JWS that it was Gods will and not mens that people abstain from organ transplants. Look up "vacinations" on their Website and see how many were forbidden. Look up serums, 1874, the UN, " witness rule"....you get the gist?

  Lesson 8. Dont expect the Watchtower to tell you the truth about itself otherwise you will end up sounding controlled like fundy Exetazo...now wouldnt that be a pity?

  Brummie
• 

  onacruse

  Exetazo, perhaps you have drawn your name from:

  Matthew 10:11 "Whatever town or village you enter, search (Gk. exetazo) for some worthy person there and stay at his house until you leave."

  Remember somebody else that did an exetazo?

  Matthew 2:8 "He sent them to Bethlehem and said, "Go and make a careful search (Gk. exetazo) for the child. As soon as you find him, report to me, so that I too may go and worship him."

  You would do well to consider changing it to peirazo:

  2 Corinthians 13:5 "Examine (Gk. peirazo) yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you unless, of course, you fail the test?"

  Yes, peirazo would be better, because you need to stop "searching for others" and start "testing yourself."

  Craig

  Edited by - onacruse on 5 January 2003 23:23:46