Nothing Hurts Like This

by JT 33 Replies latest jw friends

  • JT
    JT

    James:

    Though I MAY, on more than a few occasions, have questioned whether or not I wanted to be one of Jehovahs Witnesses and I MAY at some point decide that I dont, I can assure you that I would never contact you again. It is really unfortunate that you felt the need to post our email exchanges on jw.com because to be honest with you, I actually thought that you may have been sincerely interested in me as a person. But the fact is, the only interest you have is your viewpoint, your opinion and yourself the same things for which you condemn the organization. I am so glad that I did not provide you with any personal information about myself as you probably would have posted that on jw.com also. I truly feel sorry for you.

    I have been on the Net now going on 7years and despite the fact that i have tried to educate myself on how High Control groups like the wt controls it's members== it still is an amazing thing to watch how folks due to thier years of indoctrination literally SHUTDOWN.

    one of the first things i learned when i started college (SHOULD HAVE completed in 1985 INSTEAD wasting my time at Bethel :( was how Classical Conditioning works in Psychology class - for most of the students in the class with my wife and i this class was merely another credit for them to add towards thier degree, but for us it was much more and after just a couple of classes the instructor caught on tht we were not JUST REGULAR STUDENTS

    We would stay after class many nights and PICK HIS BRAINS, after awhile he asked us:

    "WHAT'S UP WITH YOU TWO I have never seen anyone who cares about this class as much as you two"- and so we told him tha for us this was more than a class IT WAS ABOUT OUR LIFE

    How two folks like us who were pretty sharp, seemed halfway reasonable could be taken in by WT for so long and so finally i begun to better understand how folks who are basically sharp folks could see PROOF, EVIDENCE, DOCUMENTATION AND THE LIST GOES ON AND ON, even agreeing that the information is CORRECT and yet still say: "I ain't leaving THE TRUTH"

    There has been much debate on the net about posting private emails on public forums some feel it is ok and others feel it is wrong, esp if one party is not aware,

    well I'm not here to argue that issue, in fact when Lady "C" found out I put up this poster email she went up one side of me and down the other that i should have not, and to be honest i have to agree but only to a certain extent,

    while i understand the poster concern when their email is posted to a public forum I truly believe that in some cases the good out weighs the bad, I could be wrong and if so I am truly sorry for any pain i may cause, but i truly believe that the good far out weighs the bad (Lady "C" dis agrees)

    while i would never post anyones name , phone number , location or address, i do believe the CONTENT of the message is important enough to where others need to see it, esp lurkers to show just how they think and the issues they must fact-

    i guess what hurts me the most is to think back at all the years i was a jw , esp as an elder when i personally tried to help sheild the BLOWS OF THE COLD STEEL OF WT from striking single women just like this.

    In my old hall we had 42 single black women from 25 -45 yrs of age and they all wanted to get married, many suffered great depression and frustration, so my wife and i would often times try to make thier life easier, and we always got dogged by the organization

    my wife started a little "Lady's Night out" type of thing, it all started with 5 single sisters and my wife going to Ruby Tuesday's, a Fridays or a little upscale swanky place once amonth- and it ballooned to over 30 sisters some nights

    it gave women who had no man, no where to go on a friday, no club they could go to a chance to get a little "DOLLED UP" and go out and have some good clean fun

    well word got back to the CO and it was shut down- so many sisters were so hurt for as they would tell me all the time:

    "James all we can do is go to meeting, service and read the mags and that gets OLD"

    I had started a little bowling thing after sat service once amonth, we would have up to 60-70 folks out in service (any good jw knows you can't go to the bowling alley unless you went in service that AM - smile) but at any rate we had OLD FOLKS who could not even bowl, at the alley, they just wanted something DIFFERNT TO DO in thier lives, and sure enough I go dogged and told if they can go bowling THEN THEY COULD DO AFTERNOON SERVICE making RV- it was shut down

    then i leave WT and i try to help folks and i still get DOGGED, I'm getting Tired it is wearing me out mentally:(

    I'm getting tired of trying--- TRYING to help folks, many days i say to myself, WHY, why have folks over to house, why email folks, call folks,- would it not be easier just to say THE HELL WITH them, I GOT MY BLACK A$$ OUT - YOU ARE ON YOUR ON- all the information that one needs if they want to know is on the net, I can't force folks to see what they DON'T WANT TO SEE-

    I think I need a break- college starts back up on Monday with new classes and i will have a full schedule. It has been a good run, but i think there are enough good folks on the net to provide any help that a sincere person will need

    I wish all of your the very best in your Journey

    James

    in the avg hall a single woman was often time viewed as the lowest on the totem pole next to children

    cto the point that the fear and denial factors that wt instills in allin terms of

    Edited by - jt on 5 January 2003 0:16:14

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    Hey James!

    I left you a phone message a few days ago. Did you get it?

    BTW, take ALL the classes in logic you can get. Please. I learned it the hard way by studying Aristotle, Descartes and Kant, but I learned it. It will be invaluable for you to learn it in an academic setting.

    Speaking of logic, let's take the little lady's arguments and deal with them, shall we?

    : Though I MAY, on more than a few occasions, have questioned whether or not I wanted to be one of Jehovahs Witnesses and I MAY at some point decide that I dont, I can assure you that I would never contact you again.

    Translation: "I have no arguments and you pissed me off, so I will never talk to you again."

    : It is really unfortunate that you felt the need to post our email exchanges on jw.com because to be honest with you, I actually thought that you may have been sincerely interested in me as a person.

    Translation: "Your arguments are irrelevant because in my opinion, you are not interested in ME as a person. (Do you smell a red-herring here, James? )

    : But the fact is, the only interest you have is your viewpoint, your opinion and yourself the same things for which you condemn the organization.

    Translation: you are a selfish jerk because I cannot rebut your arguments.

    : I am so glad that I did not provide you with any personal information about myself as you probably would have posted that on jw.com also.

    Translation: since I can't address your arguments, I must conclude that you are out to destroy me and and my life and I'm grateful that I never told you enough to allow you to do that.

    : I truly feel sorry for you.

    Translation: Screw you, James, and my imaginery friend will KILL you because your DARED try to help me out!

    "No good deed goes unpunished," my friend. Don't ever forget that!

    Hope that helps!

    Farkel

  • WildHorses
    WildHorses

    JT, all you can do is plant the seeds. God is who makes it grow. With that in mind. You do more than your share as far as helping people see the truth about the religion, and i'm sure there are many out there who have read your post that were helped by them but haven't yet posted.

    I know I shouldn't feel this way, because each of us help others in different ways. I think I help people feel at ease but at times I wish I had the intellect that you, Farkel, AlanF, and quit a few others here have so that I could help with the deeper things.

    Take that long deserved break, and come back stronger than ever. You will be missed while you're gone.

    Shari

  • ugg
    ugg

    you really sound like you need a deserved break....don't forget to come back....

  • Utopian_Raindrops
    Utopian_Raindrops

    Oh JT,

    I am very sorry I have not answered to all your posts.

    I am a single mother who was kicked around in the Truth.

    I am not Black but I am Latin and there fore treated the same in Anglo congs. They do not understand me and Yes, (As you have said) elders wives think you'er after their man.

    Single Mothers and single sisters in general of all races are lonely inThe Truth and treated like dirt.

    Since I wasnt grateful enough to always respond to your posts(Sorry) you wouldnt know this but I have read your posts to family. I have shared your posts with friends. I have sometimes read and re-read them.

    I understand the break as you left an Org that beat you down. Outside the Org there are people who will beat you down also. Everyone needs a holiday and so you should take one.

    Just please come back now and again. Put on your Goalies mask (Hockey) and start us another thought provoking thread.

    I can see this sisters point in not wanting her e-mail used. Maybe you should have asked. Who knows? If it helps her at all I read that post to my mother and daughters and it is saved for future reference on favorites.

    If it helps you at all based on her angry e-mail She is still questioning the Truth and that is good. She is not blind and that in part is because of you.

    Not everyone thanked Jesus. Still many benefited from His words.

    I think its exciting youre in school!

    Give a kiss to Lady C from me.

    And here for you both..

    Agape,

    Utopian_Raindrops

    Edited by - Utopian_Raindrops on 5 January 2003 1:32:5

  • Dia
    Dia

    Lady C - we ARE interested in you as a person.

    Please don't feel embarassed or ashamed by the indiscretion.

    He, and now we, are just looking out for you.

    Because we care.

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    You think she dogged you.......wait until Iam done.

    Hey you big wussy, so the lady who took advantage of your time, emotions, hearfelt advice, then decides to critisize your annonymous posting of her comments, turns like a she-devil on ya. Yeah it makes perfect sense, NOT.

    Typical of jw's to turn around the whole affair, making you feel like a dog for responding to HER PLEA for help. Jeez man, don't you remember how the brother's/sister's at the hall pulled that sort of caca all the time? Making people squirm with guilt for making personal choices, about everything unrelated to them. Type of car you drive, clothes you wear, tone of voice, early or late for meetings, somehow some elder, elderess, ms or his wife with pms, would on the drop of hat, offer some caddy, snide remark about not measuring up in some' theocratic way'.

    She is a typical jw, schooled well in the art of slagging off responsibility. Satan, worldly, weakness of the flesh, you name it they will allow themselves all sort of leeway. But YOU violate thier PERCEPTION of what is right, be prepared to be shunned.

    That is just how this lady has treated you. Shunning comes easy to them, or have you forgotten already?

    If you pick up and leave us, because of this selfish, thoghtless jw, you will have allowed another jw to have power over you. I thought you were done with that.

    Doggin you even after 7 yrs out James.........stay here and prove to her and the rest of the jw lurker's, just how ridiculous her slamming you for nothing was!

    Doggin Bear

    edited to add a p to the ms........oooops

    Edited by - DannyBear on 5 January 2003 1:55:24

  • nakedmvistar
    nakedmvistar

    JT

    In her opinion, you had ulterior motives so she told you to take a hike! And so you say it's because of years of "Indoctrination" that she "shutdown"? ... come on already! Maybe she spent enough time on this forum and realized that apostasy just wasn't for her. ///nakedmvistar///

  • Scully
    Scully

    JT:

    I've always enjoyed reading your posts here on the board. Your posts are the ones I'll read first when I see them on the list, and even though I don't always respond (most times there's just nothing more to add to what you've said other than a hearty AMEN BROTHER JAMES) I want you to know that you *do* make a real difference.

    I'm glad you 'got your black ass out' and that Lady C went with you. I personally would love to tell old Uncle Miltie to kiss my lily white @$$ while I shove a bound volume up his.

    All the best with your studies. Feel free to keep in touch. I remember those long nights of reading and getting assignments and research done on time..... it was truly "the best of times/the worst of times" part of my life.

    Take care of yourself.

    Love, Scully

  • Flip
    Flip

    If everyone were persons of limited lifes experience with little to offer, we would seldom be deserving of making judgment calls in the effort to inform others, striving to remain out of harms way by keeping our mouths shut.

    James, by the sheer volume of timely, personal perspective, presented in a good-natured manner, freely provided by your selves concerning a difficult subject, you have demonstrably proven your humility and wisdom to be extra-ordinary.

    Perhaps, continue to allow that humility and wisdom to be your guide when choosing which battles, if any, are worthy of you and your familys precious time.

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