The first man to knock down Cassius Clay was British boxer Henry Cooper. Unfortunately, Cooper got cut later in the fight, so Cassius won.
Englishman.
Muhammed Ali ~vs~ Cassius Clay ????
by LDH 27 Replies latest jw friends
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LDH
((((TT)))))
Yes, I did know that about HAYDEN COVINGTON. But, I appreciate your adding it here as some will find this is new information.
I must say, I'm a little surprised at the responses on this thread! It seems no one actually read the embedded page. At least, no one had anything to say about the Original Cash Clay.
What gives? Lots of negativity about Muhammed, tho. Odd.
Lisa
TKO Class
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nightwarrior
HI There .
My elder brother met cassius clay some years ago in Lon don England and what a great man or guy he is ,everyone in the boxing world here worships or admires him,do you think that mohamad ali ,would or could ever sink to such a level as to thank some one ,from the past for freeing his grandfarther,would you like him to do the face change from black to white as micheal jackson has attempted,
i think clay aquantes the move from cassius,clay ( As you say, a name given & conected to slavery ) Hence the change to as he thinks,a change to the true religion & freedom,
Going back to the other cassius clay ,it wasnot that he was ahead of his time in thinking ,that slavery was wrong,others were allowing financial business to take place of there concience, everyone knew slavery was wrong , i am sure this person had a part to play in the history of slavery,that those people he helped were gratfull to him ,but remember this not every african was a slave, we know they were snatched from there lands and sold as you would sell an animal,
But say 200 or 100 years ago England was full of slaves ,whom lived vertualy under the same conditions,they were tied to the house ,generaly worked to death, hence the population of ireland had to emigrate because of starvation in ireland,not much better of,austalia was set up with a crimanal element ,sent there or face hanging or prison ,despatched by the crown for life,
The thread for all these poor unfortunateswas not cassius clay ,but jesus christ,in most cases ,why do i say that because it was he or gods spirit that,allowed things to develop ,so no people shouldnot thank the old casiuss clay ,for anything ,as time and circumstances say it all ,what was done is done ,look towards the future & not the past ,as the past will drag you down
last point who cares anyway, i have great white friends & great black friends, maybee its different in america
does this help anyway,my comments i mean.
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Satanus
Muhammed ali is his cult name. Imagine if the wt insisted people get new names when they become jw's.
SS
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RubyTuesday
I will never perceive Muhammad as a cultural icon,maybe it has something to do with this comment he made.
"Our women should be honoured,but they should understand their inferiority. Man gotta look down on women and women up to men whether they are standing up or laying down. I don't take any sass."
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LDH
Ruby,
Haven't you ever regretted anything you said? What about all of the stupid shit you said when you were a Jehovah's Witless? Should that be held against you now?
What is the standard for forgiveness when people say stupid shit?
Should we have forgiven Billy Graham, about whom it was revealed last year that he had several disparaging remarks to make about Jews?
Should we forgive Trent Lott?
Where do you draw the line?
Saint, calling Islam a "cult" is, well, laughable. Islam is one of the great world religions. CERTAIN portions of Islam are cultic, certain people are fanatics in their beliefs, in the same way certain portions of Christianity are cultic. Example: Jehovah's Witlesses.
Lisa
Edited by - LDH on 8 January 2003 13:35:59
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Satanus
LDH
The name change tactic is cultic, IMO. It's part of a disowning ones old self process. That's not healthy, psychologically speaking.
SS
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RubyTuesday
LDH..just about every day of my life...I regret stupid things I say
I just find it ironic that he has the nerve to call women "inferior" The saying "The pot calling the kettle black" comes to mind.
I never heard him say he regretted making that comment.
Peace
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happyout
First, to address the original theme of this thread, many blacks were named after their slavemasters, it was another way of taking away their identity. It may be a great thing that Cassius Clay freed his slaves, but that does not change the fact that their 'real' name was lost to them. If Muhammad Ali chose to change his name so it would not reflect the name of the person who owned his ancestors, he certainly has that right. After all, Cassius Clay could not have FREED the slaves if he did not first OWN them. His story seems interesting, and he should definitely go down in history as one who fought to end slavery, as should many untold others.
As to the demeaning tone of some of these messages, to say I am disappointed would be a tremendous understatement. Valis said "Is this fight before or after they have Parkinson's? At least after they both got the disease from beating their heads in" Hopefully you are intelligent enough to know Parkinson's does NOT happen because of boxing. Talk to Michael J. Fox about that. Tom Talley whoops it up at the thought of Muhammad Ali being a "peace loving muslim". News for you, buddy, Muhammad Ali's point was he did not know the Vietnamese people, and had no argument with them, and would not go fight for "peace" in another country when he could not have "peace" in his own. While we should all be proud of the many black men and women who serverd their country and lay down their lives for freedom, I don't see how you can find fault with someone who did not agree with that theory. For many minorities at that time, America was a place of contradictions. They could not drink out of a "white only" water fountain, ride in the front of a bus, hold a certain job, live in a certain area, etc, yet they are supposed to go overseas and fight for their country. I totally understand why there were those who wouldn't do it, whether I agree with it or not I UNDERSTAND. I don't think changing his name was cultish, it was a way of casting off what he felt was a tie to his families slave past.
Let me say, I don't consider myself a fan of Muhammad Ali in particular, but neither do I hate or look down on the man. He has done and said some great things, and he has done and said some stupid things, much like all of us here. Fortunately for us, we are not in the public light to have everything thrown back in our faces all the time. But the bashing should stop, he certainly has done nothing deserving of this meanness.
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LDH
Hey TT.
I have had enough exposure to professional male athletes to know that they ALL talk a ton of shit. Well at least 80%. Perhaps it's part of getting yourself psyched up? Perhaps it's the testosterone overload. I don't know. I do know I'm glad they mute the helmet mics on the NFL games. The stupid shit some of those men talk.....
I don't know if Moo-ham ( ) ever retracted any of the stupid shit he said.
What I *DO* know, is that Trent Lott, Billy Graham and his ilk ONLY EVER APOLOGIZED after their words were recorded and shoved in their face. In other words, t*THEY* don't meet my standards.
I've yet to see a public figure come out and say, "Hey, I said something STOOPID for which I'd like to apologize," without having been caught.
Saint, I agree with you. Forced name changing *IS* psychologically detrimental, IMHO.
*HEY* (smack self in forehead) I wonder did anyone tell that to the people who ORIGINALLY changed their African slaves names to good "Christian" names?
Ruby, I had a conversation with an old friend yesterday, kinda about the apology thing. I'll post it later today. I agree witcha.
Happyout, your words express EXACTLY what I was thinking. You are my new HERO. Well, right behind Talley,Mulan, Farkel, Riz, Alan, Amazing... etc.
Lisa
Never liked the name "Lisa;" mebbe I'll change it Class
Edited by - LDH on 8 January 2003 14:11:10