The Garden of Eden

by JNS2 10 Replies latest jw friends

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  JNS2

  When I started studying with the JWs, the matter of whether the Genesis account should be taken literally was glossed over quickly. I think it was one of those "it'll be clearer later on, so let's continue with the study at hand". It really was an issue for me even from the beginning because my work has always been in the science field. Although the brother that studied with me did stop & answer many questions as we went along, this one never got resolved. It ultimately got buried as one of the things not necessary for salvation & I progressed? in the "truth" & became a baptized witness.

  I know in my gut I always felt like the Genesis account, the Garden of Eden, Adam & Eve, etc. all read like an allegory to me. I mentioned it off & on to other elders as something that I wondered about & I was always told that I needed to do more research about it to get it clear in my mind. I was told that it must be literal for the rest of the Bible to make sense & that all the other prophetic things in the Bible hinged on it being literal. It was pointed out that Jesus & Adam are spoken of in a literal way, Jesus being the last Adam, & that Jesus also said things that showed that Adam was a real man & that the Genesis account was to be taken literally.

  A Bible study I was conducting brought this all back to the surface for me again. My student said when discussing Genesis that he wondered if it was to be taken literally. I didn't give him a satisfying answer, obviously, & he ultimately quit studying. I told him some things that even sounded lame to me & it was a very insincere effort to convince him of something I wasn't comfortable about myself. This may have been the crack in the dam that has led me to where I am now.

  I've been inactive for almost a year & now I'm questioning everything, but more than ever I'm questioning the literality of the Genesis account. And does it even matter either way?

  I would love to hear what some other opinions are, especially from those that still place value in the Bible. Thanks for the help. jns2
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  auntiem

  Hi JNS2,

  I still read and appreciate the Bible, but since I have been out of the JW influence I have read other accounts in other "holy" books and have looked at other belief systems and culturs and so forth. The Garden of Eden or Paradise account is prevelant every where I have looked, just as the account of the flood was told by different cultures through oral tradition. I don't think it really matters as far as any salvation is concerned about how you view the Genisis account. I think if you do more research outside of the JW org. you will come up with an answer that fits. My problem after leaving the org. is about the bible itself. There are other writings and scrolls that the WTBTS has dismissed as not being from a divine origin. Well, others in the past have done that too such as Orgin in the third century and Eusebius in the fourth century, and as you go along the list gets longer. So my advice is to hit the books (historicle and secular) try to stay away from any that are biased. You can "make sure of all things" outside of the WT publications.

  Hugs!

  aUnTiE M
• 

  DannyBear

  JN,

  Suppose the thousands of references to family tree's, is evidence that the author knew that even his own comtemporaries would doubt it's (Garden of Eden) reality?

  But if I was assigned the task to conjure up a story as to the origin of man, Genisis fills the bill quite nicely. No?

  All neat and tidy, days of creation, man from the dust, woman from his rib, tree's with talking snakes (damn snakes have alway's caused the 'goose bumps'), no more garden, now we die. Wow probably the most answer ridden book of the entire Bible.

  Why does Genesis stand out as one of the only books, that clearly states literaly what happened. If God did inspire this writing, why did he finish his message to mankind with the book of Revelation? Truly this final effort is in direct constrast to Genesis........a book that has caused more guessing, more dogma, more confusion, among Bible believer's. Surely the Supreme creator who ordaned his words to be written down, could have simplified matter's as regards the end of mankinds travails, with the same simple and 'God saw that it was good'.

  Defender's of this fable, must tell me, what happened to this straight forward story teller of Genesis vs the absolute chaos of the rest of the Bible's message to man.

  Danny

  Edited by - DannyBear on 9 January 2003 19:22:43
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  Windchaser

  It's interesting that you bring this up today. Last night I was talking with a close friend...I'll probably not do it justice, but maybe if I write about it...

  When I was a witness, I took the story about the Garden of Eden literally, no questions asked. My friend was talking about how there are Cains and Abels in this world. How Abel constantly took care of Cain and yet, Cain killed Abel. How we can't trust everyone. How the smooth-talking Cains in this world will take and take from you and not care about you. And how you can be like Abel and just let Cain kill you. Or, you can realize that this person is taking from you and doesn't care about you and you have a choice of speaking the truth to him and getting him out of your life or you can just go along with and let him kill you, fast or slow. It's up to you.

  I've had lots of relationships like this, where I really cared about someone and they took and took from me. I don't mind that part. What bothers me is the fact that they didn't care about me. They would leave me in a split second when they found someone else they could use.

  I'm now of the persuasion that the Garden of Eden story is an allegory. That these were the things that happened in Heaven and are happening now. It's a lesson in life. You can let people who don't care about you use you and hurt you for their own egos. You can keep them in your life until they even kill you. Or, you can see things for what they really are and let them know you know what's going on and tell them to pass you by because you won't allow them to hurt you.
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  DannyBear

  Hi Windchaser,

  Gaining insight into lifes issues can come from anywhere, eh? If the bible story to Cain and Abel helps your friend to be more careful about trusting, perhaps that is a good lesson.

  I understood your comments about the alagory, but could you please explain this statement:

  ***That these were the things that happened in Heaven and are happening now. It's a lesson in life.***

  I couldn't get the sense of what you were trying to say.

  Danny
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  Siddhashunyata

  The allegorical nature of the account is apparent from a comparison of the power of the two trees, the tree of the "knowledge of good and evil " and the tree "Life". The WTBTS teaches that on the one hand the first tree had no power but was symbolic. On the other hand the second tree had literal power it was not symbolic. ( That's why Jehovah had to drive them out of the Garden for fear that they might eat from the Tree of Life.) How does one invalidate the judgement of Death with a literal fruit from the tree of Life. Somethings wrong here. The account is allegorical and its meaning has to do with the process of judging things as good or bad. The human race has lost its understanding of its true nature.
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  DannyBear

  Sidd,

  *** On the other hand the second tree had literal power it was not symbolic. ( That's why Jehovah had to drive them out of the Garden for fear that they might eat from the Tree of Life.) How does one invalidate the judgement of Death with a literal fruit from the tree of Life. Somethings wrong here.***

  Excellent.

  Of course we should count our blessing's. At least the WT has not applied the symbolisim of the Tree of Life, to some 1920's public talk or other insignificant 'declaration' made by Freddie Franz while gesticulating SQUaaaaaaSH! Or then again they probably have somewhere.

  Danny
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  A Paduan

  Adam - clay (formed by the potter) and in the case of Adam, the beath of life , "and man became a living being" (He is not God of the dead, but of the living).

  "A secure mind is like a garden"

  Check out what it is about the cherubim - they're 'in the garden' aren't they?

  paduan
• 

  thinker

  Is Eden a literal place?

  During the middle ages hundreds of world maps were based on the bible. Here's a close-up of one showing Eden:

  http://www.henry-davis.com/MAPS/EMwebpages/224A.html

  Also found on these maps are Gog and Magog in the North (Rev.) Many show an earth that's 6 parts land and 1 part water (II Esdras).

  Columbus thought he'd found Eden:

  "God made me the messenger of the new heaven and the new earth of which he spoke in the Apocalypse by St. John,...I am convinced that this is the spot of the earthly paradise whither no man can go but by God's permission..."

  (Christopher Columbus 1498)

  The bible is believed to be literal until it's proven otherwise. At that point the believer just changes his mind and says it's symbolic.

  Edited by - thinker on 10 January 2003 7:53:48
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  Windchaser

  Hi (((Danny)))

  I'm thinking that if the Bible has any merit, if it was in fact written to be a lesson as it claims, then the things mentioned in it have a bigger meaning than the stories. Was there an actual Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel? I dunno. But, maybe the things written about Eden happened in Heaven, too. Maybe God was showing how much he gave to Satan, how much he cared about him and how Satan didn't care at all about him, was jealous and would have killed him if he could. The account is a simple way of defining Good and Evil for us.

  It's interesting that you picked out that one sentence. It wasn't anything that my friend and I had discussed the other night. It was my after thought.

  Edited by - windchaser on 10 January 2003 9:5:3