by Brummie 18 Replies latest watchtower bible
What say yea? Active force or Person ? Question only aimed at those who still believe in something.
I spent years believing and preaching the WT version and now can see HE is a person...this was the hardest thing for me to ever understand.
This is not a question on the Trinity or on the Deity of Christ, they have already been discussed...thought it might be interesting to hear others view of the Holy Spirit.
Brummie
Edited by - Brummie on 13 January 2003 23:10:59
Verses saying the Holy Spirit is God:
Acts 5:3,4 " you have lied to the Holy Spirit you have not lied to men, but to God."
Acts 28:25,26 Referring to Isaiah 6:9,10, Peter said the "Holy Spirit" spoke to the prophet Isaiah. In the book of Isaiah, it says the "Lord" spoke to the prophet Isaiah.
1 Cor. "Dont you know you are Gods temple and that Gods Spirit lives in you?"
I found this too!
The Holy Spirit |
Persons
"they were all
filled with the Holy Spirit" Acts 2:4"that He [Christ] might
fill all things." Eph. 4:10that you may be
filled with all the fullness of God Eph 3:19"I will
pour forth of My Spirit upon all mankind." Acts 2:17"He has
poured forth this which you both see and hear." Acts 2:33Because He [Christ]
poured out Himself to death" Isa 53:12"I [Paul] am being
poured out as a drink offering" Phil. 2:17; 2 Tim. 4:6David was
poured out Psalm 22:14"He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and
fire " Matt. 3:11; Luke 3:16"For the Lord your God is a
consuming fire , a jealous God." Deut. 4:24"our God is a
consuming fire ." Heb. 12:291 Cor 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who
is in you2 Cor 13:5 Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ
is in youone God and Father of all who
is in all Eph 4:6greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world 1 Jn 4:4
do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ
is in you 2 Cor 13:5And if Christ is in you Rom 8:10
2 Cor 1:22 gave the Spirit
in our hearts as a pledgeEph 3:17 so that Christ may dwell
in your hearts1 Cor 3:16 you are a
temple of God...the Spirit of God dwells in you2 Cor 6:16 we are the
temple of the Father, I will dwell in themthe Holy Spirit
fell upon them Acts 11:15; Acts 10:44; Acts 8:16sacrifice to Jehovah our God, lest
He fall upon us Ex 5:3the hand of the Lord God
fell upon me there Ezekiel 8:1 (metonymy: God really fell not the hand)Truly
Thanks Mesohapi
Looks like you covered a lot of ground!
It was that "Fill" and "Pour" argument that we used all the time that used to confuse me until I saw Christ also 'Fills' all things and was poured out.
Brummie
Yeah I think you are right. The Holy Spirit is a person. The bible speak of it as something that has person-like qualities. You can't grieve a "force". I think it is a person of God. I know this sounds weird but God is not like you or me he is God so we really can't comprehend. It is a person but yet a part of God. I'm not making sense but I know what I mean do you?
Adam and Eve had DIRECT fellowship with God himself. Since God can't be in the presence of sin He was outey after the forbidden fruit. The entire old testament is about men trying to obey God well enough to get back into direct fellowship. Well, they failed. And nations were destroyed as God gave chance after chance. The old testament also consistently points to Jesus as the perfect way of salvation. The law system was used by God to prove to men that they had the need for a savior. So with Jesus' perfect life and sacrifice for ALL of us, on his ascent back to heaven the GIFT of the Holy Spirit was given. The undeserved GIFT of direct fellowship with God is ours because of Jesus. We are to honor Jesus JUST AS we honor God the Father. The Spirit IS God. The Son IS God.
Thank you Oh my Father, for giving us your Son...and leaving your spirit 'til the work on earth is done
2nd Thessalonians 3:5: May the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patience of Christ.
Notice in that Verse, Paul is praying to the Lord to direct people to God and to Christ.
Who is "The Lord" that Paul is praying to?
2nd Corinthians 3:17: Now the Lord is the Spirit and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 14 January 2003 6:34:16
I don't think I even believe in it.
My reasoning is differant from any one else I know ( Dont laugh -you know I am weird) well as I have repeated before . Jesus showed mankind the "BODY' We know Jesus had a FATHER -& we learned throughout Scripture the Spirit was in the beginning -When all was created( And will teach us all things) & Since I am made in HIS Image -I too am body( you can see that if you were here)All recognise I am a soul & My spirit is either happy or sad. _ So I am three in one- Except mine dont work as ONE !! because I am imperfect.My body want to do something but my spirit says NO- Then I am happy in my soul when I do HIS will. >>>>>>>>
What you dont understand MY reasoning !!!! You & a million others. LOL
After leaving the JWs, I associated with Evangelical Christians. I did quite a bit of study on the Trinity, including time spent with another exJW and a "pastor". Even after that "study", I could not "grasp" that the Holy Spirit was a "person", yet I did come to believe that the HS was God. I based this on two scriptures, one stating that Jesus cast out demons by the "Holy Spirit" and the other parallel scripture stating that it was by the "finger of God". Just as my finger is "me" so God's finger is "God".
But through my studies I came to realize that there is no uniform teaching throughout the New Testament that definitively tells us who/what God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit is. The New Testament is a "work in progress" and relates many and varied views on these subjects and many more. That is why Christians have so many different interpretations of these issues. The only way that something "uniform" can be taught on many subjects is to come up with a "teaching" that one believes is true and if there are other passages of scripture that contradict that view, one needs to come up with a way to "harmonize" them. The variety of teachings on God, Jesus, Hell (or Hellfire), the "soul", etc that are found in the Bible proved to me that the Bible writers (whoever they were) were just sincere (or seemingly sincere) people that wrote about their faith, but never intended their writings to be used as a Rule-Book (at least not in the form it is in today). Once that mentality grew (that of trying to identify what is orthodox and expecting or even demanding that all others adhere to those teachings), then came the calling of others "heretics" or "apostates" (sound familiar?), the Crusades and the shunning as practiced by the JWs. I am not, of course, stating that all Christians have that mentality, there are many open minded and open hearted individuals. But unfortunately, this mentality of having "the Truth" is characteristic of Christianity as well as other religions were "fundamentalism" in it's many forms, flourishes.
ExpandedMind
"The mind, once expanded to the dimensions of larger ideas, never returns to its original size." --- Oliver Wendell Holmes
Thanks for all the interesting responses. Interesting that no-one argued the JW viewpoint, I couldnt argue for it now either...too weak.
Brummie
