So, yesterday whilst playing chess I had a discussion ranging widely topically in which my chess opponent asked me, "How do you determine whether any religion is good or bad since there is so much basic disagreement on interpretations of text?"
I replied this way:
"Does this particular God need to be treated like an adult, or as a spoiled child with a churlish temper? That's a good place to start.
Is your God like a criminal taking hostages whose demands must be met--or--He'll start executing his hostages one by one? That's a good start.
Is this God thin-skinned, easily insulted, like a preening narcissist craving only high praise to the point you're forced to walk on egg shells? That's a good start.
In other words, what is there to inspire admiration making you want to become a better person? If that's not there--then you're not in fellowship with a Divine Being--just a Chief Executive unaccustomed to not having things His way or you're fired!"
My chess opponent listened and nodded and said, "That's a pretty high standard...for God."
I started laughing and couldn't stop.
I should have added: "If this God is fronted by a select committee of knuckle-heads, that's a tip-off, as any good 'moyle' might tell you."
How do you determine whether any religion is good or bad since...
by TerryWalstrom 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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TerryWalstrom
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sir82
That's pretty good.
How about these:
"Does your god say he grants you free will, but then promises to annihilate and/or torture you if you don't happen to make the 'right' choices?"
"Does your god promise to annihilate and/or torture you if you express your natural biological sexual attraction outside of a narrowly defined rigid band of 'acceptable' behavior?"
"Does your god refuse to communicate with anyone, and instead demands allegiance based on thousands of years of shifting human traditions, and/or based on translations of copies of copies of copies of.....copies of copies of copies of books written by Iron Age goatherders and fishermen?"
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truth_b_known
Did your god make you perfect, with the ability to bring honor to yourself though noble acts or did your god make you imperfect with no ability to do anything honorable but deserve death in his/her eyes?
Hail Thor Odinson!
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TerryWalstrom
That's a very tricky word: perfect.
In my mind (and perhaps the mind of most people) it suggests something practical rather than fuzzy and ethereal.
If you're selecting eating utensils for your meal, a fork is perfect for yummy morsels and worthless for soup. So, context!
A perfect God would, by definition, be unfailing in implementing a plan.
The God who builds a chair does not create one which breaks the first time it is sat upon!
And, as a side issue--God wouldn't build a chair which could "choose" to break or not--depending on whim.
God wouldn't be dissatisfied with a chair which supported his Divine ass ONLY BECAUSE it was made that way or demand it CHOOSE such support as a reasoned alternative.
The God(s) mankind begs for favors and labors to please have historically been real dicks!
One might almost leap to conclude: they've imagined overlords not unlike themselves, only invisible and more deadly. -
Vidiot
As far as I'm concerned, any church that...
...fairly uses the democratic process, accepts the discoveries of science and history (regardless of the implications), practices egalitarianism in all aspects, embraces fiscal and policy transparency, and fosters positive community activism...
...has my respect.
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amiable atheist
TerryWalstrom -- That's a good point: Being a perfect human according to the bible doesn't imply the ability to discern the concepts of Good and Evil, after all.
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Vanderhoven7
All religions are faulty, based on false premises, but some are more dangerous than others.
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Bad_Wolf
Depends on how your moral compass judges what is good or not. Some are if harm to some for the greater good of all, some are no benefits will ever justify harm to even 1 even if greater good, etc. Many different moralities.
Religion has done both good and bad. Good in establishing unity and community in old times, perhaps controlling those who on their own morality would have done harm to others, etc. Bad in the crimes, deaths, and hurtful things done in the name of it.
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TerryWalstrom
On the other hand, learning a routine, sitting quietly while adults talk, studying things together with your family, showing concern for others, discussing ethical behavior...those things modeled inside a family structure are rarely found outside of religion. Formative formatting of a child's conscience is better than none at all.
All that aside, the damn superstition, deliberate ignorance, and wishful thinking supplanting practical rational thing are terrible.
I don't know what's worse not having the first set or mixing it with the second set. -
Anders Andersen
@Terry,
I must strongly disagree with your last comment! Which is, I think a first in over 3 years of me being here ;-)
On the other hand, learning a routine, sitting quietly while adults talk, studying things together with your family, showing concern for others, discussing ethical behavior...those things modeled inside a family structure are rarely found outside of religion. Formative formatting of a child's conscience is better than none at all.
Children learn to sit and be quiet at school (although I wonder what's so good at being quiet and still instead of exploring and inquiring...)
Religious families in my opinion most often don't discuss ethics and morality. They'll simply inform the children which rules they must obey lest they burn in hell (or something less graphic but unfavorable and lethal all the same).
On the other hand, I have noticed that many atheists (the intelligent ones at least) make a conscious effort to teach their children to develop an actual moral compass based on compassion, basic human rights, etc. without rigidly prescribing where that compass must point.
They try to show their children by example how to do and be good, as they can't fall back to a primitive set of rules that must be obeyed.
Yes, there's enough religious folks that do some of that too.
I'd say your comment is a (perhaps watered down) continuation of the trope 'without God one cannot have morals'.
Having intelligent conversations about ethics and morality is far from the exclusive domain of religious people...