by confuzcious 45 Replies latest jw experiences
Ah haha,
You self righteous ____. I am a JW too and was a regular pioneer for 9 years.
I am not DF or DA. And regardless of what the standing on the others here, the vast majority of them love and serve Jehovah. It's the Organization they have a problem with. And most of them, a problem with people like you who have caused so much hurt.
I was once like you too. The Org drills it into your head that we are better than everyone. WE ARE NOT, and I can say that since I am your Brother in the Truth.
I am going to address the original question. I picked apart a recent non-apology apology in a WT magazine, and my fellow posters added their own great thoughts. Essentially, the FDS is supposed to be forgiven for past mistakes because their motive was pure. I took apart their basic reasoning in little peices, some of which have been mentioned here already. They can't have it both ways; either they are spokesmen for the pure, unadulterated TRUTH, or they are just like the rest of imperfect humanity they so roundly condemn. If indeed they are the sole spokesmen for Truth, then no one dare question them. It has been proven over and over, however, that that this Slave is prone to error. If they are like the rest of imperfect humanity, they have a great deal to answer for to be claiming to be something they are not. Even King David humbled himself when he was shown up to be wrong, wrong, wrong. I doubt the FDS would ever stoop so low. I mean, really, bending down to wash LABOURER's feet....
Confuzcious:
Self righteous? who me? People like me that cause hurt? I know not about the ORG, nor have they DRILLED anything into me,
I am completely unbiased as I am not a JW. I was posting it is obvious to me they have the
truth based on the research I did with unbiased literature. So seeing as I have no experience with
the "org" than that makes me undefiled in that respect?
I have never met a JW that thought he was better than anyone, they preach out of love, not
so they can vindicate themselves, is that what you did?
You have a problem with the organization? whats your alternative, stay home and study yourself?
I have to ask your alternative.
If you are MY brother in the truth I should get baptized and you should go back pioneering and not
hang out here with apostates.
The Bible writers were imperfect men. However, if what they wrote could be classified as imperfect (full of errors)...let us lay the Bible aside and search for other guidance.
When we hear the excuse of imperfection (error) attributed to the FDS today it is never in relation to their personal human tendencies but is always used to explain the erroneous prophecies and comprehensions written down in their publications.
Is this type of imperfection (error in the sacred duty of communicating God's purposes and truths) excusable or acceptable for the self-proclaimed mouthpiece of the God of Truth. Would it not be wise to lay aside the publications of the "imperfect" FDS and seek other guidance? Furthermore is it fitting for the FDS to impose its "imperfect" non-inspired views on all JWs and moreover sanction those not fully agreeing with their comprehension of the moment?
Ah haha,
Sorry. I didn't know you were not a JW. I have no problem with you then.
My only thought to you now is the following...
None of my family are JW. I studied it on my own.
If you are not a Baptized witness you would not know this, but when you first study or peer from the outside, everything is seen through rose colored glasses.
The people are incredibly nice and if you're not baptized, you are by no means under the yoke of the elders.
If anything, I am BIASED towards JW. I want them so much to be the truth.
But the litmus test is "by the fruits you will recognize them." Unfortunately for me, I've seen some of the fruits that were more hurtful than you would want to know.
I'm here with the "apostates" because doing my own research, I discovered that some of these people are not the vile people I always taught they were.
You said in your first post to "get a life," that we have nothing better to do than to slam JW. This is my life. Serving God is my life. So believe me, I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure of all things. Even if i means I have to "go over to the other side."
confuzcious: Your last post was just absolutely excellent!
But the litmus test is "by the fruits you will recognize them."
Ah, how quickly that test is applied by the WTS to all other religions, and the negative results are emphasized. Apply it to themselves, and only the positive results are even allowed to be discussed.
I discovered that some of these people are not the vile people I always taught they were.
Amazing, isn't it? That there actually are sincere and intelligent people outside the WTS? What a surprise.
So believe me, I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure of all things. Even if i means I have to "go over to the other side."
It is so refreshing to see this, instead of "I'd rather be wrong with the organization than right with God."
Glad to have you here and sharing, confuzcious. We all learn together.
Craig
We are indeed all imperfect but when people repeatedly gossip, slander, lie, shun and more imperfection should not be used as an excuse. Sin is a missing of the mark and all should try to strive to reach that mark, not purposely miss and try to blame it on imperfection.
"Well they are imperfect people"
All false prophets are only imperfect people...in what way does being imperfect stop your organisation from being a false prophet?
"we are only human"
ALL false prophets are only human....in what way does being "only human" stop your org from being a false prophet?
"Well we get things wrong sometimes and we admit our mistakes"
ALL false prophets get things wrong and......yada yada yada
So now address the false prophecies....
By what right does the organization's leadership claim authority?
If they ACT unfaithful or unwise, they have no authority
as a "faithful and discreet" slave. It's just that simple.
Paul told the Corinth congregation "the head of the woman is the man and the head of the
man is Christ". There's no Governing body in there, to tell anyone what to do.
All early Christians were led by holy spirit sent from God - no "Governing Body" was
needed, except as a body to set an example of Godly behavior.
What does the Bible say about false prophets? Deu. 18 says "do not fear him".
Do not fear what he says - do not regard him with fear - or in other words, ignore
him!
metatron
Language, language, language. This is just another example of how cults use language to reaffirm their agenda.
Another aspect of this "not perfect" defense is the language itself. "Perfect" implies an unreachable standard. Of course they aren't perfect. I mean, nobody is, right? "Perfection" is nearly impossible, so being less than perfect is acceptable to most people.
What does "not perfect" mean? Does it not mean FLAWED? But what's the likelihood that an active JW is going to say that the organization is flawed? That it's teaching have been or are currently flawed? Saying "we are not perfect" is much more palatable than saying "we are flawed". I can think of two reasons off the top of my head why this is so. One, nobody really expects a group to be perfect, so dismissing major screw ups becomes substantially easier when you write it off to "imperfection". It's a way to distance yourself from responsibility while seeming to be humble enough to admit error. After all, nobody is perfect, right?
Two, "not perfect" is a way to link the word "perfect" to your group without alleging to be so. "Flawed" is inherently negative, but "not perfect" still manages to put a positive spin on a negative. After all, nobody is perfect, right?
It's all about putting distance between the organization and responsibility and yet still managing to put a good spin on screw ups.
If I hear that argument one more time from my JW friend, I'll probably ask for rephrasing as I've done in the past, as I think it requires the person to really THINK about what they are saying. You know, what exactly does "not perfect" mean?
Yes, I suppose I'll hear the old, "we've made mistakes" routine that will float around indistinctly in the ether as though they were just some passing folly with no harm, no foul. As if the organization couldn't possibly be making mistakes currently... but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it!
I'm convinced. Start chipping away at the language... I think that's one of the best ways to undermine cult indoctrination.
Edited by - detective on 22 January 2003 13:41:35
