I'm not aware of insulting Island Man, Steve. If you mean how I addressed SimonSays, I suppose I'm just tired of her foolish comments and having her trail around insulting someone who's my friend. She's accused Rachael de Vienne of lying, grave robbing, and other things. But you are right. I should just ignore her.
The origin of the name and masthead illustration of The Watchtower
by Gorbatchov 34 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
SimonSays
My sincerest apologies. I miswrote, Old Goat has a problem with my grammar like a foolish child. However, What I meant to say was not his literal grave, but the pyramid erected years later where the Bible Students placed a Time capsule under it that was stolen in 2000. It’s fishy that these people old goat promotes have a piece of history that by all intents should have been part of the time capsule. I’m not suggesting the authors are the direct thieves, just curious as to how they stumbled into the information.
In 1905 the brothers in Pittsburgh bought a huge farm that included a big house in order to establish a very large cemetery. When the pyramid was erected a few years after C.T. Russell’s death many items that included photos, Watchtower publications and a copy of the WB&TS corporation charter were placed inside and sealed in a metal box. So the pyramid was also a time capsule! This was published not only in our 1919 Convention Report but also in newspapers and other books of Pittsburgh’s history like the 1958 book “Where Else But Pittsburgh?” So, on a dark night in the year 2000 thieves broke open the pyramid and had stolen these valuable items of our spiritual heritage. Neither the thieves nor the items stolen were ever found
http://websta.me/n/watchtower_of_allegheny_tour
Old Goat, while your attempts to belittle me is not unusual here, as I stated before, don’t embarrass yourself, you really know very little of the WTS History as well as your friends. Retire your historical aspects of the WTS.
-
Old Goat
SimonS,
I think we've already established that you know nothing about Watch Tower history. And that I do. Remember our exchange on a previous thread? You ended by saying: "My responses are not researched like yours, I don’t have time to use proper grammar, sorry."
And you're correct. Your research is faulty. You're unwilling to correct your grammar, and I believe it hinders your understanding. There are programs for adult improvement in most school districts, and they are often free. You may want to check into one.
You rage at Penton and Schulz and de Vienne because you don't understand the meaning of a book title. That suggests a reading comprehension or learning problem. There is no shame in that. There are remedies and ways of coping. But you turn abusive and you do so with no understanding of the subject matter.
Some of what you say is coloured by your desire to defend Russell and Bible Students. I understand wanting to defend your faith. But even 'the true religion' is composed of human worshipers who do unaccountable things. As far as that goes, I think Schulz and de Vienne do an excellent job of being even handed. Have you read their second book? Did you read the chapter about Barbour and Russell's separation. Russell comes off well, I think.
You do yourself and your faith no favors by ranting at others. You rant but you prove nothing because you haven't researched enough to know the details of Russellite history. Instead of suggesting someone robbed a grave, state some facts. In point of fact, though the intention was to place a small archive within the pyramid, there is no evidence that it was ever done.
And if it was done, there was no intention of hiding secrets within the monument. The stated intention was to place some representative literature inside the monument. There would have been nothing you cannot read today. You cite some of the Bible Student convention reports, but my impression is you lifted that from a web site. You seem not to have read the original reports. Was the pyramid opened by treasure hunters. Yes. Did they find anything. Apparently not.
History is built from verifiable detail. It is not built from blind faith. And it is not built from a rant based on a misunderstanding. You think Schulz suggested that Barbour was some sort of Bible Student prophet. He did no such thing. You reach that conclusion from the title of his book. What was Russell's view of Barbour after their separation? The last view was that Barbour was the evil servant, once the faithful servant but replaced by Russell. That puts him squarely in Russellite history, even if you wish it didn't.
Take a breath. Relax. You must stop relying on web pages and secondary sources. You mentioned some books that you liked in your previous exchange with me. I could probably name them, but most books about Russell are not well done. They derive from secondary sources, and one is full of made up stories. Zydek's book is favorable to Russell, but Zydek made up long stretches of his story. Examples are an imaginary conversation between Russell and one of his uncles. A supposition presented as fact that Joseph Russell's brother paid his way to the USA. There's more, but why repeat nonsense? A contrived story is not history. History is supposed to be fact.
If you want to understand Watch Tower history, turn to some of the original sources. Drop your reliance on silly web pages, most of which are wrong. And stop making claims you can't back up. And address the underlying problem. You have grammar and reading comprehension problems you must address. There's no sin in that. And those problems can be overcome. But, if you don't overcome them you'll continue to make one unsubstantiated claim after another, and find the response (assuming you're not just ignored.) upsetting because you wont be able to handle the issues.
-
SimonSays
While I’m not in a position to advise a half million modern day Bible Students their making up stories because there’s and old goat that suggest they’ve been lying for 15 years, would probably be simpler to achieve rather than having scumbags distort the truth in the name of profit.
As I told you in another thread, you will never impress me as a historian and even less as a human being. The proof is in the pudding, you’ve been exposed by me too many times. Its ironic bible students lying for 15 years while people here have been doing the same. You have the last word, so we don’t hijack this thread any further.
The theme:
The origin of the name and masthead illustration of The Watchtower
-
Old Goat
No one is suggesting Bible Students are making up stories. I'm suggesting you don't understand what you read. Bible students sell their stuff. Are they writing for profit?
I bought a set of books from the Chicago Bible Students paying about 220 US dollars for them. That's not publishing for profit?
I'm not trying to impress you. I don't need your adulation, and I'm not seeking it. But I do expect that you back up your 'stories' with some facts. You are unwilling and unable to do that.
example: "because there’s and old goat that suggest they’ve been lying for 15 years." Translation into English: "Because there's an Old Goat who suggests they've lied." Who mentioned 15 years? You don't understand what you read.
Bible Student histories with few exceptions are elaborations of an article Russell first wrote in 1890 entitled Perils Among False Brethren. They add gossip and some facts to what's in that article. That does not produce a rational, factual history.