Creation or evolution? First as a boy I believed in creation because I heard a preacher say it was true. Then I thought "Well, maybe my teacher is right because of fossils and the recorded facts". But do you believe they could co-exist? Evolution of species is documented, not only in humans. There isn't much to take that away. And we have the Biblical account of creation. What do you think about the thought that Evolution might be part of creation. Evolution being the process which God used to get things the way they eventually became.
crelution or evelation
by showme 30 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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justhuman
I believe we are cloned by aliens. Perhaps they use an ape and with their technology they turn us the way we are..
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showme
Possible
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Kenneson
Just Human,
You're not one of those Phony Cloners (Raelians), are you?
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Abaddon
1/ Initial Origins (where God came from, where the initial state that allowed the Universe in it's current form to start came from) both lead to a 'belief-like' moment. There are probably less than ten thousand people who really understand the theories regarding pre-Big Bang cosmology, and the explaination that God was always there is equally incomprehensible. Of course, that's looking at it in Western Christian terms, as there are other religious beliefs regarding creation, but they are equally subject to ther above flaw.
2/ Thus there may be (a) god/s, BUT, if there were no god/s, it would logically be impossible to prove s/he/it didn't exist.
3/ There is nothing in the way of scientific proof for (a) god/s.
4/ The various creation accounts that exist, once one goes past the question of initial Origins, are all scientifically provable as a load of bollocks.
5/ Therefore, the Holy Writings that contain these Creative myths are non-literal, as far as Creation goes.
6/ There is a strong logical arguement that if god/s did exist, then her/his/its/their existance would be as provable as that of gravity, as essentially the absence of any proof of any god ever is highly convenient, as they can never turn up to disagree with all the various and sometimes contradictory things people say they want. This arguement is especially strong when applied to religions where god/s has/have a clear moral character and a plan for the Earth, as the absence of any proof of any god is then even more unreasonable.
7/ Thus we are left with a surprisingly small number of alternatives;
a/ There is/are no god/s, creator god/s or otherwise.
b/ There is/are (a) creator god/s, but we are utterly incidental to her/his/its/their 'plan', and people have just made stuff up because lightning is scarey until you understand electrical charge.
c/ There is/are (a) 'god/s', as in (a) being/s more powerful than us. but they are equally OF this Universe as we are, but essentially speaking have an evolutionary head-start.
d/ There is/are (a) creator god/s, but for reasons I typically summerise as 's/he/it/they is/are (an) asshole/s', s/he/it plays hide and seek with us, denying us any proof of her/his/its/their existence, indeed, so manufacturing the Universe that there is no evidence whatsoever for anything other than existence being non-teleological (i.e. meaningless).
If you really want to believe in a divine being of some sort, then it's easy to come up with some half-arsed smogasboard of a belief system whereby the creative accounts are not literal, but an expression of the guidance god/s have had over Universal origin and development, but there is equal proof for the tooth fairy, so it's up to you.
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peacefulpete
Show me...Make the truth your own. This is a simple truism. No matter what the topic studied there is no substitute for personal investment of your own brain power. It is unfortunate that many here have formulated opinions without reading some basic readily available books on this topic of evolution. In this way they have not truly improved their lives beyond what it was while influenced by WT dogma. Too many are still being lead along though flimsy arguements and half truths that have emotional appeal. They may feel free to do as they want and have mistakenly assumed that this means being free to believe what they want. This power to delude oneself without judgement from others is an American epidemic and has enabled superstition and psuedoscience to flourish in recent years. Take control of your life and read respected authors. Then after you understand the scientific issues you may formulate opinions about the more controvertial. It is truly ironic that I quoted the JW line, "make the truth your own" as the environment of suppression and denouncement of opposing views within and outside the organization makes this very difficult.
An excellent book "CLIMBING MOUNT IMPROBABLE" by Richard Dawkins skillfully explains what evolution is and why science recognizes it as a fundemental truth. He writes for the public.
If someone wishes to believe in a God who has used only natural processes to create and maintain the universe, this is a philosophical perspective outide the domain of science.
Edited by - peacefulpete on 29 January 2003 12:39:33
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Xander
LOL @ Abaddon
You're posts are always interesting, it's nice to have you back, btw.
FWIW, I'm still trying to decide between your B, C, and D options. I think 'they are assholes' may cover a lot of ground....
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freedom96
I definately believe in creation. That doesn't mean however that God did not use various forms of evalution in that process.
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pettygrudger
One avenue I haven't seen explored too much - why couldn't it be a bit of both?!!!
Perhaps some higher power did create the first men (which ever one it was) - and it naturally evolved into what we are today......