by fulltimestudent 38 Replies latest jw friends
I agree xanthippe and this is also the problem I have with what the Australian columnist wrote in fulltimestudent's link above. It is so easy to dismiss complex economic and political controversies by saying oh it is all about religion and ethnicity.
Forgotten, in those religion is the enemy povs, are all the Syrians who wanted and were fighting for democracy - surely huge numbers are now refugees
all the Syrians who wanted and were fighting for democracy - surely huge numbers are now refugees
It's also likely that
1. Islamist groups have killed some of these people
2. some of these people joined Islamist groups, perhaps just to stay alive.
loveUnitHateExams
of course and not just a few - Islamist groups have probably killed quite a lot of them.
Your second point is probably also true but I wonder if this may cause problems with registration as refugees?
Good last question, Ruby, which leads me to ...
3. there are Islamist fighters among genuine refugees, waiting for the right moment to strike.
Good article, Oisif.
And here's another:
What makes ISIS particularly dangerous is that they're fanatic and highly organised. They know our leaders are soft and are taking advantage of this.
As the ISIS smuggler in the article said, just wait ...
Xanthippea day ago
No offence SSC but which century are we talking about?
My solution would to grant them temporary asylum and as soon as it's deemed safe in their own countries, send them back again
No offense taken. I probably have the thickest skin you're ever likely to encounter.
Of course you are right, from my time spent in Muslim countries where they are not even considered fundamentalist havens, I learned pretty quickly that being "safe" is relative. Not just in Muslim countries either but in third world countries in general and wherever there is a huge disparity between rich and poor, the have and the have-nots, those in power and those under their rule. Who knows when it will ever be safe in these regions.
My remark concerning "my solution" is not only over simplified, it's blatantly silly since it's so glaringly unrealistic. It's a tragic and complex situation I have witnessed with my own eyes across the continents in my years as an private sector attaché. We've all read about incidents of routine executions for "crimes" you or I would not bat an eyelid at, but when you're actually standing there in the dust with hundreds of men, women and children jeering and throwing stones at the hanging corpses, you can't help but feel that these people are not only beyond our help, but seem to readily accept these horrors as part of day-to-day life. Many I have spoken to would love to live in the abroad where life is better, but I got the very clear impression that their mentality would come along as part of their immigration baggage.
All that tells me is that the world may think we are ready for them to be amongst us but that would be like taking a wild animal you assume you have tamed into your home and later wonder why it mauled you. I can only suggest:
1) They have to willingly change themselves first.
2) If we are going to help them, find a way to offer education
Beyond that I have no idea. Since most of my adult life has been spent in the security business It is the only thing I can really give input on and letting those with this mentality mentality go unchecked amongst comparatively stable countries would be sheer folly.
Believe me (you could ask my wife) I still beat myself up thinking how I would see all that unnecessary suffering and then return to my safe home and comforts feeling like a hypocrite. Humans as a species have to cease and desist their barbaric behavior, whether it's a noose for a twelve year old girl or a "smart bomb" which stil unintentionally hits a school or hospital. Barbarism is barbarism, adding computers to it or a belief system does not change it any way shape or form.
My only hope is that technology will help break down barriers, destroy superstitions, end ignorance and stop prejudice. Beyond this I Don't know what else to say.
P.S. I do NOT feel bad for the adults who engage in this mentality, they have a choice. Kids on the other hand do not. They are brought into a vile arena devoid of compassion for the sake of an ideology. Those adults should be fighting those ideologies from within, for the sake of their kids if not anythimg else. Seeing these kids be victims of circumstance often made me wanto to shoot those very adults myself, and believe me it took no small measure of self restraint!
Here's another article:
There could be very serious trouble in the next few months thanks to the limp-wristed liberal hand-wringing by EU politicians.
It might have just started.
My remark concerning "my solution" is not only over simplified, it's blatantly silly since it's so glaringly unrealistic. - SSC
I appreciate that.
Not just in Muslim countries either but in third world countries in general and wherever there is a huge disparity between rich and poor, the have and the have-nots, those in power and those under their rule... Many I have spoken to would love to live in the abroad where life is better, but I got the very clear impression that their mentality would come along as part of their immigration baggage. All that tells me is that the world may think we are ready for them to be amongst us but that would be like taking a wild animal you assume you have tamed into your home and later wonder why it mauled you.
When you look at Maslow's hierarchy of needs it's obvious that before people can develop compassion and empathy for fellow humans they have to have their basic physiological needs met. Food, shelter, safety, medical care. Many third world countries are without this. Who knows what individuals would be like if they came to the west and their basic needs were met?
One thing's for sure until all humans have enough to eat and no longer have to watch their children die from hunger and easily curable illnesses, none of us are safe. As long as religious leaders can point out that other countries have more of what the people need to sustain life they will be able to manipulate their politicians and radicalize individuals to fight and bomb and attack the west. It is in our interest to make sure all our neighbours have enough to sustain life, only then will we be safe.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs
Xanthippe: One thing's for sure until all humans have enough to eat and no longer have to watch their children die from hunger and easily curable illnesses, none of us are safe.
Yup! That's about it. Sadly acknowledging that is, of course, just the start of the journey.
And, what we have talked about is only a small part of a complex problem, and the propaganda and counter-propaganda is extremely confusing.
The small boy in the first posts has become a political football. Think of the implicit message in this claimed 'expose' of the drowned boy story:
I'm under some pressure this week (a uni assignment) so I wont expand, except to say that this 'expose' does ask one excellent question. And that is, that if the Muslim world is one BIG BROTHERHOOD, where are all the Muslim Relief Agencies? And from that flows another question, how difficult would it be for a Syrian to get to Egypt or Malaysia or Morocco or Saudi Arabia or Indonesia to build a new life?
