Could "this generation" inspire a new "1975 debacle"?

by Island Man 36 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  OneEyedJoe

  I actually think that in a lot of ways it's in their best interests to push a new hard date like 1975. They'll get one last good push out of any fence-sitters, and they'll likely rake in a lot of money from the die-hards. They might even get enough short-term growth out of it to sell the idea that they really do need more KHs built in the US. Then once it comes and goes the fence-sitters will leave allowing them liquidate a lot of the real-estate assets and get down to a slightly smaller, but fiercely loyal following that will generate higher profit margins. They'll have lower overhead but I suspect those that they lose are probably already not donating very much so they could actually come away with more profit in absolute terms as well.

  Those that they're left with after the disappointment will likely be even more loyal to the cult than they are today - this is seen time and again in doomsday cults, when the prophecy fails those that stay double down on their dedication to the cult and often are invigorated into proselytizing. Having shed those that already had their issues with the cult and further securing the loyalty of those that remain, they'll find it easier to make the sweeping organizational changes that they need to make in order to maintain viability with less "murmuring" going on at the grassroots level.

  The GB is getting old (again) and they no doubt want desperately for the end to come soon. The cult is "under attack" from the authorities for their child abuse and shunning policies too, so they probably believe the end is near if they're true believers. This time around I do think they'll be more careful and keep the date prediction to CO talks, convention talks, and maybe online-only content, so when it doesn't happen they won't have to work so hard to hide their failed prediction. If they do put anything in print, you can be sure they'll edit it after the fact in their online library.
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  Vidiot

  Good post, Joe.

  I actually think the stuff in the first paragraph is sort of happening now, already, even without date-setting.
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  Vidiot

  Island Man - "I think that it's possible that they're getting ready to issue a new end time date insinuation like they did with 1975.."
  

  Seriously, though; I don't know.

  They've put a lot of effort into erasing 1975 from the R&F's collective memory, and cranked out a fair bit of "no-one-knows-the-day-or-the-hour" rhetoric in the interim... plus they've tried it too often in the WTS's history; the option is - arguably - past its sell-by date.

  I think they'd risk losing too much credibility, even amongst JW loyalists.

  
  
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  steve2

  This issue is very likely never far from the GB's heartfelt prayers to Jehovah. I'm sure that, should Jehovah HImself direct them to unveil new light on an end times date, they will do so.

  In the meantime, be informed that it does not belong to those who are not on the Governing Body to run ahead of Jehovah's organization and speculate about such matters.
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  Vidiot

  steve2 - "This issue is very likely never far from the GB's heartfelt prayers to Jehovah."
  

  'Specially these days. :smirk:
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  Stealth

  In spite of the fact that after 1975 there were many who left, I think in the long run, they still came out ahead.

  They lost fewer after 1975 than they gained in the decade leading up to it with the false date setting.

  That's growth in a religion that is currently not growing.
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  OneEyedJoe

  I think they'd risk losing too much credibility, even amongst JW loyalists.
  

  I think I'd argue that they're not too worried about that. Afterall they did recently redefine the word generation with no relevant scriptural citation (even taken out of context the one scripture they cite doesn't support this 1+1=1 nonsense) and not too many people have gotten upset about it. And most that found a bad taste in their mouth are still trapped because "where else would I go?"

  Additionally, it's entirely possible that they've done too good a job erasing 1975 with their revisionist history. The leadership themselves might not realize how big a deal it was. And in 10 years the only people who remember 1975 will be in their 60s at least and at that point I suspect that their mortality and their being unwilling to accept that they've wasted 50 (or more) years on a cult when they should've known better will keep them in. No one else will remember 1975 as anything more than a year that was occasionally mentioned in hushed tones in their youth. If they set a date in 10 years (my personal favorite is 2034, so 10 years would be about the right timing for them to start pushing it) no one will be thinking "here we go again" they'll be thinking "finally!"

  Not saying they're definitely going to do it - I can just totally see it happening and I don't think anyone would object to it until after it passed. Even then they'd only lose the ones that weren't helping them much anyway. The very reason date setting works so well is because it's something that everyone should see through right away. The problem is that they get excited before they think rationally and then by the time they stop to use their reason they're already invested and they use their power of reason not to think objectively but to rationalize what they already want to be. After that, no one wants to believe that they've been duped by what is obviously bullshit so they stick with it.
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  prologos

  no. 1975 had a 7 year lead time. David Splane's spiel introduced the typical generation of Joseph. He lived to be 110. Anybody born (not just alive) during those 110 years is part of that generation.

  The generation debacle, predicting the marriage of the departed overlappers aka the start of the paradise millennium will not start after 2075. Most of us will be dead by then, and " the dead no nothing "
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  westiebilly11

  ...1986 was another year they focussed on...as it was an international year of peace...
  
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  OneEyedJoe

  no. 1975 had a 7 year lead time. David Splane's spiel introduced the typical generation of Joseph. He lived to be 110. Anybody born (not just alive) during those 110 years is part of that generation.
  

  My understanding (though I confess I haven't watched Splane's video) from the WT article about the overlap was not that they had to have overlapping lives, but that the generation applied only to anointed ones that had their "heavenly calling" overlap with the lives of anointed ones that had their "heavenly calling" prior to 1914. That's why fred franz was a good example for Splane's explanation because he would've been 21 in 1914 and likely had started partaking by then. So given that any overlappers would have to be partaking before 1992 to catch Franz (and well before that if you want to catch any significant portion of the first group of the overlap) that puts the minimum age of the second group of the overlap at ~40 today. But in 1992 almost all the partakers were much, much older (the youngest I'd ever met that was partaking then would be in his 70's now) due to the (now defunct) 1935 "sealing" of the anointed. So given that, the math works out pretty well to predict an end date of ~2034. That also has the convenience of matching the 120 years of Noah, which they've mentioned a few times in the last year or so.

  Obviously, it could easily be twisted (just as they did with the original generation teaching) to extend the overlap well into 2075, but that's not what they're saying now (even in the literature they've said that the second group are themselves getting up in age) and I think they're more likely to set a date than to revise the teaching to extend the date (until they absolutely have to)