Interesting question. I guess for some it may point to the non-dual concept of God, but if you're addressing Christians I'd assume the understanding is of a distinct and separate entity, yet prayer would be the connection. It seems to me the answer will vary depending on whether you are looking at things from the perspective of ultimate reality or phenomenal reality. I've heard it said that prayer is talking to God, and meditation is listening to God. It would seem that this can be explained as a human need, whereas from the perspective of ultimate reality it does make no difference, that human desires is just details if nothing else. I have the impression that time, free/human will vs. God's will all whirls around in there somehow, but I'm too lazy to finish the thought right now.
Two Questions
by Yerusalyim 30 Replies latest jw friends
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d0rkyd00d
YAY YAY YAY!!!! I'm sooooo happy you posted this question!!! I've been obsessing and spreading my opinion about this topic to all my school friends for days now, cuz i think i've come upon a revelation that i'm sure many people have already reached.
Excuse me if i repeat anybody's previous comment, but i skipped them all to write this cuz i'm so anxious!
Does prayer help anybody? No. NO no no no no no. and no. well.....maybe......NO!!! it doesn't help anybody. I honestly think people do not give themselves enough credit for the things they accomplish. "Must have had some help from God." My butt! Ok, look at this situation. You pray for something good to happen. Maybe you're not exactly rich, and you pray that you win the lottery. You buy several lotter tickets, and you are about to lose hope, when all of a sudden....WOW! YOU WIN $500! must be God! he answered my prayers! yeah. that must be it. he heard your prayer to win the lottery, but forgot about all the people who are starving, sick, and dying round the globe who pray to him every day for a cure, for it to end. he ignores those prayers.
Doesn't it say something in the Bible about God not interfering with human activities? i would think this would include answering prayers. Which is one more contradiction of the Bible. He won't interfere, but he will answer your prayers. My white bootay he will.
Also, i'm tired of people saying, i was praying,"Please God, don't take my baby." LOL! poor them. i mean, why would he spare your baby and let thousands of others die? your baby special? every baby is special, but i mean, c'mon. he puts nobody's life above anybody else's. Whew. felt good to get that off my chest. and once again, sorry if i used something somebody else said. I was just so excited to post this!
"No cool quote yet. But i'll think of one soon."
Ok. just read the other posts. and decided a previous post was right. Nobody is answering your question. so i will now. does prayer change God's mind? No. Bet you weren't expecting that answer. What do you mean does it change his mind? I really don't believe God has an idea about whether somebody is going to die or not. He might know if it's going to happen or not. MAYBE. But your prayer would not affect his decision. that would be favoritism. and that wouldn't be good in this hell we call earth. ok. i answered the question. sorry bout that.
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Flowerpetal
Yeru, you said:
However, I've recently read some Jewish Materials that indicate a line of thought that God may hold off certain blessings for us until we ask Him for them. I think I need to pray about this issue some more.
I just heard a talk in my congregation where the speaker mentioned that if you want God's blessings, you must give him something to bless.
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Yerusalyim
Actually, NO, I did expect to hear some say that prayer doesn't change God's mind, I still am not sure I think it does. I honestly think prayer is for us. As to God not intervening in human affairs, no, the bible doesn't say that, in fact, the bible is the story of how God is INTIMATELY involved in human affairs. God is a God of History and the bible is the story of His History in human affairs. Does prayer help you ask? Actually a scientific study was done where the subjects (sometimes even just plants, usually though patients) were prayer for, and a control group also (presumedly) not prayed for. In all cases (even the plants) those who were prayed for recovered faster than those not prayed for, even if they were not aware of the prayers for them (which would be the case with the plants).
INTERESTING
PETAL, Yes, in order for God to bless us we should give him something to bless.
Yeru
YERUSALYIM
There is more of heaven and earth than is dreamt of in your philosphy, Horatio.
Dickens: A Tale of Two Cities
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Farkel
: I think everybody is missing Yeru's first question:
: Does prayer change God or His mind?:God changed his mind when he was going to destroy Nineveh because once Jonah got there and preached what he was supposed to, the people repented. Was it a result of prayers, though, or of people repenting because they heard Jonah's message?
Exactly. There are only two possibilities:
1) Prayer does not change God's mind, therefore praying is a worthless exercise.
2) Prayer does change God's mind, therefore God is not omniscient.
Farkel
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outnfree
Am away from home on a borrowed computer, but just had to say this, without much personal reflection at all:
Abraham asked Jehovah not to destroy all the people in Sodom when he was informed of the angels' task, remember? If xx number of righteous, 25, 10, etc. could be found, would God really practice such wickedness against ALL? Jehovah answered that he would spare the righteous. And ostensibly did. Was that a prayer or a conversation? Isn't prayer a conversation between humans and God?
At least, isn't that what we're taught? (Not having Jehovah and/or his angel materialized for a personal visit with us?) So it seems to me that the BIBLE TEACHES that God DOES change his mind in answer to prayer. (See also Flowerpetal's reply above.)outnfree (who understands that she may have only answered ONE question, and has many more than that to pose herself
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Yerusalyim
Was that conversation for God's sake, or that of Abraham. God already knew that there were not even 5 righteous in the city. This discussion happened for the sake of Abraham that he might learn to trust the justice and mercy of God.
YERUSALYIM
There is more of heaven and earth than is dreamt of in your philosphy, Horatio.
Dickens: A Tale of Two Cities
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dark clouds
Yeru
I like your line of reasoning, very cool,
he is unchangeable and his spirit moves us, i can hang with that thought, for i believe it is the very same energy that not only moves through us, but also moves us and everything that lives, as well as allowing us to do magik. . .not in contradiction though, but then how do we explain jonah's case? he changed his course of action does this not constitute his changing his mind?
the way I see it---the bible stories anyway---is that they are all myths to teach a story, and prove a point etc., just another book in my library,
i only say this so that you know where i stand
by the way Riz if i weren't so far i'd help you out with the hair. . .
Rob so i believe you are agreeing with what i said?
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Yerusalyim
cloud,
Hey, I need to do some more thinking on this issue, however, in the case of Jonah, who changed, God or Jonah? God already knew, He knew Jonah would eventually preach, and He knew the Ninevites would repent, for a season. When we perceieve that God has changed, is it really us that changes, our attitude. Is this what is meant by having the mind of Christ, conforming our will to that of God's. Like I said, I'm still working out this issue for myself.
Thanks though.
Yeru
YERUSALYIM
There is more of heaven and earth than is dreamt of in your philosphy, Horatio.
Dickens: A Tale of Two Cities
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dark clouds
Yeru:
1. it was stated before then that god has an active role in participating in human events, INTIMATELY
2. he knows what we need before we ask him3. he knew the outcome of sodom while he spoke with
Abraham (this can relate to point #1)if that is the case then, so as to not go off subject,
where is our free-will?
CHUCK