It's working...she's listening...what NOW?

by Gig 10 Replies latest jw friends

  • Gig
    Gig

    Just the other day my JW friend, whom I love very much, called me out of the blue after having broken contact yet again a couple of months ago. This exhausting cycle I'm determined to break. She has never been able to reconcile the advice she gets from her elders and the sense I make. Her inclination is naturally to go along with the elders when she can't understand, much safer to her, all of them against me...how could I possibly be right even when she thinks so too.

    Anyway, she has agreed with me that this time has to be different...neither of us wants to "go through the same thing again", and it's not a selfish thing. She went so far as to say she gets the feeling that I might know even before the WTS what is wrong and need changing. (WOW) She respects my dedication and ability to study, but then I talk about being led by the Spirit, my comforter and counselor, and she obviously doesn't understand (how could electricity feel good?) She only knows to ask the elders and they tell her that basically I suck and can't be trusted...don't hear, see, or speak to me. These elders know me and I've never attacked any of them, it's always been questions with no insistence that I'm sure I'm right. But because I don't immediately accept it as they do and because I ask a different question than the WT mag does or answer however thoughfully outside the box, I'm no good...for Jah or her. Plainly, I'm not a witness and therefore unacceptable. How much easier can they make it? It's Jah's dates answer, not ours.

    So our conversations were going really well, lots of care, concern, and love, complete with emotions. And by design not much witnesses verses the world talk. Then last night she goes to her meeting and this morning I can tell the difference. I didn't even have to ask if she talked to any of them about me...knowing she did and knowing what they must've said. I hate to see her this way, doubting herself and so worried about going against Jah's arrangement. I've explained that we're all motivated by either love or fear, and that it has to be love where we're concerned. So I am trying to figure out a decidedly different response, a new and entirely appropriate behavior. The strategy is to maintain how much I love her and enforce the fact that I'm not doing anything wrong...(I don't like deceit and neither should she, why am I the bad guy for just mentioning it?...how else are we to learn to avoid the same mistakes again?) I have offered to go through it step by step, allowing her the opportunity to ask every question and set the pace...and my answers will be based on WT quotes or scripture...and she has agreed. I told her it's the only way to eliminate the conflict in her mind. I don't really have a problem if we disagree, but it is unacceptable that we don't understand one another. Until we are certain that we understand, then we aren't able to disagree. She understands and agrees. I added that I'm almost positive that when it gets right down to it, we won't disagree, and that's pretty encouraging to her. I told her I'd go to the meetings or read the WT articles so we can maintain common ground. I've often been considered a fault finder but I explained that it's just the way I tackle problems...I dive right into what I don't understand and deal with the problems so I can more quickly and thoroughly enjoy/appreciate the things I agree with.

    She loves me and I love her, she knows as well as I do the cycle we've been caught in but that eventually we HAVE to deal with the misunderstandings. I'm trying to make sure I'm not mis-using her feelings for me, mainly because I'd want her to do the same. I really need your ideas...SHE WANTS TO LEARN and admits that she gets unreasonable in response to some of my questions or statements. It wasn't just words I put in her mouth that she shouldn't make big decisions based on emotion. She knows she is naturally an emotional person...she recognises the value and benefit of thinking before feeling rather than feelings dictating your thinking.

    IT'S WORKING! SHE'S LISTENING! Please help me set my boundaries, even if just these temporary ones to get past what she was told (again) last night by her friends and elders. I have to somehow reward her for going against what she feels (and is being told) is the right thing to do...she's doing it but I know she is feeling irresponsible about it. I already suggested with the scripture to do just as I did when I met her two years ago...Test everything and hold onto what is good.

    A little more perspective...she can now say matter of factly that she wants to marry me, and she is openly impatient for me to come back and see her. (I'm currently elsewhere on business) She has said before and even recently that she is so tempted to just give in and let me lead her. I know that doesn't mean we won't have to deal with her WT induced confusion, but certainly her exposure could be limited or at least filtered. I've taken my responsibility and admitted that to enforce one scripture I've violated others, even loosing patience and raising my voice.

    I didn't mean for this to be so long, but we all know the value of more information. HELP!

  • LovesDubs
    LovesDubs

    Im sorry for being behind here Gig...but is this gal baptized JW? Raised JW? All her family JW? And you never were? That would help me understand better.

  • Mulan
    Mulan

    Wow. That is wonderful.

    My advice: Don't tell her too much. Just little tidbits............even questions, that you don't give her the answers to. If you overwhelm her, it might scare her.

    A few years ago, a dear friend of ours, who hadn't spoken to us in years, drove into our driveway. I was wondering why she was coming, so I went to the door with great hesitation. The first words out of her mouth were "I have to know what you know. I know you and David wouldn't leave "the truth" without a good reason." I told her very little, just answers to some of the questions I had had for years. She was just beginning to question (age 50), and had a lot at stake. All of her children were JW's, and she was divorced.............again. The good news is she eventually left completely, without getting df'd or da'd. Some of her children will have nothing to do with her, but two will, as I recall. She moved to another state and I get occasional emails from her.

    Just take it slow. Remember the old adage "don't throw up all over them".

  • Gig
    Gig

    LovesDubs, she was baptised just before I met her. The WT is the only "religious teaching" she's ever had. I knew basically nothing about JW/WTS then but have researched it, meantime our relationship has continued. None of her family are JW's. She does rely heavily on the social environment, but I know she could let it go. She's wanted to come to me where I currently am, so I know she would do it even if she doesn't fully understand. She would just shift her reliance onto me.

  • Gig
    Gig

    Mulan, tidbits...gotcha. THANK YOU Your comparo was helpful...She's basically saying the same thing..."I have to know what you know"

    "Don't throw up all over them" LOL

  • outnfree
    outnfree

    Oh, Hell, Gig, I confused you with somebody else!

    My sincere apologies,

    outnfree

    Edited by - outnfree on 30 January 2003 14:23:19

  • cruzanheart
    cruzanheart

    You know, I'm just going to start over -- this was NOT going the way I wanted! Gig, you are being a terrific friend by caring so much and I think she's starting to appreciate that just maybe you're not trying to lure her away from "the Truth." I hope everything works out terrific for both of you.

    Nina

    Edited by - cruzanheart on 30 January 2003 14:36:30

    Edited by - cruzanheart on 30 January 2003 14:41:42

  • cruzanheart
    cruzanheart

    Well, that's what I get for listening to outnfree! My apologies too!
  • LovesDubs
    LovesDubs

    Now that I have the whole picture...I see how torn she is between wanting to do the "right thing" with her faith, and not wanting to lose you in the process. The JWs are very good at what they do and they teach people their own dogma easier with people who dont know the bible to begin with. If over time she read the bible BY ITSELF, and compared many translations, and...replaced the dogma with her own thinking and reasoning abilities..something the JWs WONT allow her to do...she may walk on her own. However...if she continues to cling to it, you are in for a rough ride doll.

  • Francois
    Francois

    Do you have this site? http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/oral.htm I think it would be helpful if you don't already have it. It's a great source and it's 100% JW stuff, right from their publications.

    Also, I've been where you've been and one of the first things I gently tried and succeded in proving was that the scripture that the JWs interpret in the NWT as "...the kingdom of heaven is in your midst," is a mistranslation. The accurate translation is "...the kingdom of heaven is within you."

    Big, big difference. If the spirit of God lives within the heartmind of each of us and is directly contactable there, what reason do we then have for an organization? And isn't that why the scripture was mistranslated in the first place? Isn't that why the Catholic church wanted to keep the entire bible and mass in Latin, so the people had to take their word for it? I can find no difference in motivation. Also, you can find other instances where the NWT translates the word as "within" as opposed to "in your midst." And this serves to slam the door on their "honesty" pretty hard.

    You're really going about it the right way, and I admire you for it. You approach the argument with your loved one like you love her and that's GOT to be impressive for her. Especially when compared with what is likely to be going on at the KH.

    Keep up the good work.

    francois

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