Okay, Someone "Enlighten" Me... Pleas...

by AGuest 49 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  SixofNine

  It is that simple eh? Ok, go ahead, I'm listening. Find me that 100 mpg carburator, and you'll have gone a long way towards solving any oil related problems this world has.

  Please don't try to infer that your last post was a simple solution.

  BTW, back2, have you purchased a hybrid vehicle like the Prius or Insight? Whatever you drive, was your last vehicle purchase made primarily as a geo-political solution/aid?

  Get off the frikkin high horse and give the people some food so they'll shut their reactor down.

  Is it that simple?
• 

  roybatty

  That's the only reason I can see. The Bush administration yet again shows a lack of foresight.

  Geez, why is it suddenly the Bush adminstration's fault? What did the Clinton administration do for eight years regarding the pursuit of alternate fuel sources. What did Mr. Environment aka Al Gore do?

  Yes, I agree that the Federal governement needs to do more but I've grown tired of screaming and pointing fingers at the Bush administration while at the same time driving giant SUVs.

  I find it funny that there are hundreds of thousands of hard-core environmentalists here in the US but Honda and Toyota have only sold a few thousand hybred cars here in the States. These people can talk the talk but can't walk the walk.
• 

  seven006

  six,

  OK, you may have gotten me on this one because it has been almost 30 years since I read the information about this and I do realize that it is considered an urban legion much like aliens and ghosts. I do believe in life on other planets but my mind jury is still out on the ghosts. I just remember reading about it back in the late 70's early 80's. Hell, I was young, I also believed in snakes talking to naked ladies about fruit choices. I should know better than to make a statement like that without the information "on hand" to prove it. Sometimes I forget where I am and how this board demands proof as it should. The carburetor that I spoke of was the invention of either Robert Fish or Charles Pogue, I don't remember which one and I do not remember all the details. I looked up information about them a few years back but I don't have the time to research it now. If you wish, you can do that and come back and ream my ass later. I can take it, Iv been wrong before.

  I do recall enough to remember it wasn't invented in Podunkville. I grew up there and I would have known that. I won't argue this one because I don't have all the facts, shame on me. I will try to have the facts in order a lot better before I make a statement like that again. I did not mean my statement to be the only simple solution, I meant it as a better solution. Cut back our need for petroleum products and we cut back our dependence on foreign oil. Cut back that dependency and we might have enough money to keep our kids in school the whole year by cutting back on a B1 bomber or two.

  Back,
  I completely agree. I did a paper in my economics class about methane gas and how powerful, clean and energy efficient it was. I cant recall it all but I do remember the teacher getting pissed off at me for saying in the report that we could all live on a cleaner planet if they found a way to use bullshit in our cars. So much for trying to be creative.

  I agree completely about the need to come up with alternative energy sources. If they can run the space station on solar power why not our cars. As far as I know we are still pretty much in baby land when it comes to photovoltaic technology. The plants have been using it for millions of years, maybe someday they will tell us the secret.

  Roybatty,

  I agree with you, and for the reason you stated, money. If you read my first post in this thread you will see that I stated the cause of all this was two things "oil and money". There have been hundreds of devices invented to help get higher gas mileage. Most of them have not been cost effective because of the time they were invented gas was not that expensive and the cost of production did not warrant the cost saving of the fuel. It's one of those things where the invention was ahead if it's time. Back then we were not as concerned with the environment as we were about saving a buck on gas. Now things have changed. As I mention above I am not clear on all the facts so I shoulden't have made that statement in the first place, but as I do recall, and it makes sence as far as the cost of production in relation to the final retail price not being market worthy the big three faught the tecnology. Again, money is in question, I applogise for making the statement without the facts in front of me to prove it. That was wrong.

  It all breaks down to money and oil means money. Cost of oil, cost of food, exchanging oil for food and whatever. Back in my late 20's when I owned a couple of companies I worked with a chemist to develop the first low viscous liquid paint to be used in an airbrush. I had to work out the effects of pneumatic vacuums pressure created by the use of a compressor as well as a Co2 gas cylinder and how it would effect the carbon resin we were using as the base of our paint. Not only was our paint base a diluted petroleum derivative so was our pigment. At that time the materials used to make the paint was cheep enough for us to produce the paint and put it on the market. With in a year, it became the number one selling airbrush paint on the market. I called it com art paint.

  I sold my company years ago and the company that bought it thought they were going to clean up on the paint sales. As things changed and the price of the raw material went up, the paint got to the point that it was to expensive to produce and sell at a reasonable price to compete with the aniline dye paints and the sales went to hell. I'm glad I got out of it. That whole commercial art market died in the early 90's. A few years later I stared a new company and started to introduce to the art market a new more environmentally friendly product for cleaning paint and other various things artist used to create their art. These new products were all based on citric acid or as we knew it, orange oil extracts. At the time, the technology of orange oil was new and the raw materials used to make the products was expensive. We put the products on the market and because of the price point they failed.

  Go figure, artist are known to be the ultimate tree huggers but they refused to pay twice as much for an environmentally as well as human safe product and kept buying the petroleum based turpentine type products instead. When their teeth start to fall out and their nervous system is shot by the time they are fifty they may have wished they had bought the orange juice instead.

  All I am trying to say is we are too dependent on oil in our modern society. Just as the price of electronics come down as more people buy them and force competition to lower prices, it also forces the component manufactures to lower prices to fit the market. The more people buy the products the higher the volume of sales. The higher the volume of sales the more raw material is used and higher volume discounts for that raw material comes into play from the manufacture's vendors. The result, cheeper products.

  OPEC doesn't work with that philosophy. They tend to raise prices whenever they feel like it. That drastically effects the whole world. Will a war stop it all, hell no. Saddam stays in power he can hold Saudi Arabia,the biggest oil producer at knife point. That happens and that psycho controls the world. Which psycho would you rather have control it, Bush or Saddam? I think the whole thing is crazy.

  Dave

  Edited by - seven006 on 9 February 2003 16:56:16
• 

  TR

  Some of you peeps fail to realize just because the public wants or doesn't want something doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

  Just because I want Saddam's ass kicked doesn't mean it's the right thing to do, and vice versa. The military and the leaders know more than I or any of you people on this forum, or the general population for that matter. It's their JOB. We elect them to do the JOB. It isn't always what we WANT.

  TR
• 

  back2dafront

  Well, honestly, my last vehicle was a ford mustang (which i still own but don't drive)

  I recently bought a toyota pick up truck simply because I'm a musician and i have to have a means of transporting my equipment.

  I don't know of any electric trucks yet.

  I'm in the process of selling my mustang so that I can buy an electric car to commute back and forth to work.

  That's what I'm doing to save money and protect the environment - how about you?

  I'm not saying previous administrations didn't do what they should've done either, all I'm saying is that Bush outrightly refused to sign Kyoto and has transgressed in his policies regarding the environment instead of progressing. If Gore was president now and didn't sign Kyoto I'd be pointing fingers at him too.

  This isn't just about 100 mpg carbeurators either. I'm sure you've read the numerous other posts about alternate energy - there's a company in Arizona that's building homes that generate their own energy. Solar power, wind power, hydrogen, etc etc...you do realize that investment in such sources now would save us all money down the road, right?

  You guys talk about "hard-core environmentalists" as if it's a bad thing. I don't understand what's bad about being concerned about the environment. ??? Why the negativity? Because you're that attached to your SUV? To your current lifestyle? Is that what life is for you?

  You guys should come to California and see just how breath-taking the earth is in certain places. (not like this is the only place in the USA that's beautiful, because it isn't) Ever swim in a crystal clear river in America? You can in northern cali. Ever hike amongst the giant redwoods and sequoia trees? The earth is a beautiful place, and it's designed in such a way to support life if it's key components are not tampered with.

  I live in a city that has clean air, but I work in a city that doesn't. When I make my way down into the "valley" 6 times out of 8 the smog is so thick you can't see the mountains in the background that you can see on a clear day. You think breathing that stuff in doesn't effect your health? Well, it does and it's not getting any better unless people make a change. I want to raise my future family in the best surroundings as possible, so yeah - i'm a "hard core environmentalist" and I'm damn proud to be. It's not all about "saving the animals" ya know - it's about preventing our two coasts from dissappearing beneath sea level in 20 years.

  Yes, I agree that the Federal governement needs to do more but I've grown tired of screaming and pointing fingers at the Bush administration while at the same time driving giant SUVs.

  So you give up and support them? This is your country too you know - everyone constantly yells about our freedoms and our rights, yet YOU don't stand up for your own?!?!

  This is crazy. If this kind of reasoning represents the majority of this nation, this country is doomed. I'd be far more content in the mountains of Chile than amongst people who's only values in life are the size of their Explorers.

  This is really depressing.
• 

  roybatty

  All I am trying to say is we are too dependent on oil in our modern society.

  I agree 100%. I wish that the Dem. and the Rep. would get serious about having the private sector develop alternate fuel sources.
• 

  roybatty

  You guys talk about "hard-core environmentalists" as if it's a bad thing. I don't understand what's bad about being concerned about the environment. ??? Why the negativity? Because you're that attached to your SUV? To your current lifestyle? Is that what life is for you?

  I find that being "hard-core" anything isn't always good. It makes it difficult to keep an open mind. BTW, I don't feel the label "envirmentalist" is a bad thing, it's a good one. But it cracks me up seeing Greenpeace bumperstickers on giant SUVs. I also wonder what the effect would be if all the people who are screaming to have Bush clean up the environment traded in their cars for hybrid autos. While I applaud you for planning on doing this, I doubt if most hard-core or otherwise environmentalists are planning to shell out more cash for their autos.

  BTW, I don't drive a SUV. I drive a small, 4-cylinder Volvo that is known for being enviromentaly safe.
• 

  AGuest

  I'm back... and peace to you all!! (It was late when I got home... and a new day started... and... and...)

  I have read all of your comments, and they were all good, if not necessarily accurate, and first, I have to say HEY, Lauralisa!! HOWDY, Seven, dear!!

  Okay, now, for those inquiring minds who want to know: in this thread you truly should play by the rules, for I made the "rules" when I started the thread. I specifically ASKED for responses of a certain type. And, RoyB, I think... again, I asked for "crimes" that the US itself has not also committed. So... GONG!... you, too, lose!

  Before I begin the gist of my response, I need to ask those here:

  Do you not remember the purpose of the laws surrounding "clear and present danger" and pursuant to Congressional decree passed during World War I how THE GOVERNMENT CONTROLS THE MEDIA IN TIMES OF WAR?

  (I also wish to remind those who think the US in the right in demanding the UN "do something"... have you considered the fact that the the US is not known for even paying its UN dues and the last I heard they were SEVERAL HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS in arrears... for how long now? And so... given that "truth"... Ahhh, nevermind... for I know there will be folks who'll say, "So, what?" But, truly, I thought integrity was integrity... and hypocrisy is hypocrisy.)

  Now, then, with all of that said, the true issue is, dear ones, oil... but not for the purposes some think. It is oil, but not power to keep the US "running"... so much as power in the form of world domination. Bush... is being PUSHED, dear ones... by that top 1% of the world that he has to please... those who made his presidency possible. True, the US relies heavily on oil. HEAVILY. However, the US HAS oil... its OWN oil... and plenty of it. And yes, it is more expensive to preserve the environment here than drill it... versus just sucking it out of a "wasteland", per se.

  But the TRUE issue is the REASON the US buys oil... from where it does... at the prices it does: again, ultimate world domination. The US stockpiles its oil, dear ones. And buys it elsewhere at rock bottom prices. "WE"... are starving Hussein's (and Kuwait's and Saudi Arabia's... and... and...) people... because "WE"... will consume a product that "our" government is not paying a fair price for.

  (But, of course, that's not "our" problem, is it? Their leaders should charge more! But then, if you have a country of starving people, and the only truly exportable commodity from your country... beside rugs... is something the most affluent country in the world has enough of its own of, but, sure it'll buy yours... if you'll sell it to them cheap... REAL cheap... but what can you do... it's all you've got to sell that's truly worth anything... and your people have got to eat...)

  Sigh! I digress.

  "We" buy cheap, dear ones... very cheap... and sell high. Very high. "We" even create imaginary "shortages" to drive the price up. And we buy in GREAT quantity and they SELL in great quantity... to feed their people.

  I ask you: does oil replenish/renew itself? Nope. So... ONE DAY... it will be gone from that region. Entirely. Eventually. Sure, it may be another 100 years or so... but that's a drop in the bucket for a country such as the US, which just 300 years ago was sort of a wasteland itself. Does that region use/need oil? Sure it does... the entire WORLD needs/uses oil... for one purpose or another... primarily HEAT. But not as much as "we" do, and yes, petroleum products, particularly plastic... is the MAIN use, NOT gasoline.

  But I ask you: once the region is deplete of oil... where will the "world" get its oil? WHO... will have some to sell? Ah, yes... that Alaska pipeline is there for a REASON! And at what price do you think the holders will THEN sell its oil to the world? At the same price that they now purchase it? Oh, c'mon! Tennis shoes are made in Taiwan at about $.50 a pair... and sold here for over fifty dollars or more a pair!

  It is called CAPITALISM, dear ones... and capitalism is NOT what many of you think it is. It is NOT "free trade" and "free enterprise", as its propaganda suggests. In TRUTH, it is a system DESIGNED to permit the rich... to get richer... and the poor... to get poorer. Please... I beg you... pay attention. Because if you think it's anything other than that... you have been misled.

  (NOTE: Do I "decry" capitalism? No more than I decry any other "system" that earthling man has set up... which eventually results in man... dominating man... to his injury. And why is that? Because in TRUTH, they are ALL designed to benefit a very small group, while overlooking a majority. ALL of them. Why? Because the heart of those who institute such systems is, generally, wicked - sorry, but it's true - and the LOVE of money... not money... not the need for money... not the benefit of money... not the usefulness of money... but the LOVE of money... which sooner or later overtakes ALL of those at "the top"... is the root of all evil. Sooner or later, the self-servingness of earthlingman... takes over. Sooner... or later. True some of these systems provide all kinds of social benefits - yeah, right - for the "underprivileged". Do you truly think, though, that keeping the rich rich, and the poor poor, is not taken into consideration at the birth of such systems? Truly?)

  It's only a matter of time, dear ones... and the clock is ticking. And this is not about "religion". It is about power. Pure and simple. Hussein, who was PUT IN OFFICE BY THE US... when Iran was the "enemy" (sigh!)... just as Bin Laden was put into power... when Iran and Russia were the "enemy"... set the oil fields of Kuwait on fire... because he would rather have seen it burn... than given away at the price the Kuwaitis sell it for. Unfortunately and too late for them, the Kuwaitis now realize their error (anyone paying attention to that... to the Kuwaiti position in all of this? Hmmmm?)... that they were "bought"... and very cheaply so!

  Dear ones... earthling man has not changed... he is NOT that "civilized" so that all of his "worldly" desires have been "conquered". There are STILL ungodly men out there, those who seek their own selfish gain... at the expense of innocent people. Why? Because people are expendable... whoever they may be and from whatever country. "Ours"... and theirs. For it is the people who will fight... and the people who will be killed... and not the ones pushing for this conflict. They won't personally see a day's battle... not a one of them. But they will sacrifice their people... for money... and thus, power... for it is power that is inexpendable.

  For ultimately, he who has the power... will make the rules. Please... pay attention... and stop letting earthling man's hateful rhetoric... and hate for his fellowman... persuade you from the truth. IF the US wanted Saddam Hussein... the US would GET Saddam Hussein. Just like they "got" Morimar Khadafi... the Ayatollah Khomeni... and Bin Laden. Hussein was supposed to play the "game": alliance against Iran in exchange for alliance with the US. And play he did. The US, however, now wants to OWN Iraq... and its oil fields... something Hussein didn't take into consideration when he sold out against Iran.

  I ask you: who put Pakistan's current government into place? What, though, is the feeling of the Pakistani PEOPLE about the US? Who put Afghanistan's current government into place? What, though, is the Afghani PEOPLE's feeling about the US? Who but Saddam Hussein into place? And what is the Iraqi PEOPLE's feeling about the US? We can't just sit in our homes in urban and suburbian US and know what's truly going on IN THE WORLD, dear ones! Do you REALLY think the US media is reliable... particularly in consideration of media gag laws that went into effect after the Vietnam war? Where's the logic in that? Saddam Hussein was a HERO... when he was doing what the US wanted against the people of Iran. Now... he's a menace.

  Again, I ask you: What has Saddam Hussein DONE... that the US itself has not done?

  Dear ones... you can't come into issues like this on the tail end. You should have been paying attention all the way back to when Russia and England attempted to over take Afghanistan during the 1800's. Go back and research THAT... and all of the conflicts that have taken place since then... and THEN comment on this current issue. For it is one... and the same. Truly, nothing new under the sun...

  What's "my" solution, then? Truly, I have none, for I do not think one system is so much more greater than another. True, the systems that are in place now provide me and mine with much more than it does many others. I am fortunate, however, not to be one of those "others" and indeed the system that I enjoy is detrimental and not beneficial to them. Alternatively, the system that they enjoy would be detrimental to me... and so on and so on.

  Either way, however, I still have yet to see the justification for warring with innocent men, women and children... because of the unpopular policies/rulership of one man and his administration. If his people don't like it... and I dare say if our media IS to be trusted... they like "us" much less than they like him... let THEM rise up... and remove him.

  Beware of wolves... in sheep's clothing.

  And again, I bid you peace!

  A slave of Christ (who has entered this subject only because as my Lord has said, "With the same judgment that you are judging you will be judged," and "he that sheds INNOCENT blood" will be held accountable, so that many who call themselves 'christian', and yet think Mr. Bush is justified purely by means of his position or Hussein's perceived one... and so SHARE in his zeal to commit this act... may also be held responsible WITH him... by means of condonement... for the loss of innocent lives. May those that have ears... hear.)

  Edited by - AGuest on 9 February 2003 19:50:58
• 

  seven006

  Shelby, Shelby, Shelby,

  Don't tell me you started this thread so you could preach again? Bad girl, you get a noogie. I should have known better.

  I have only one question for you. How long does it take a dead dinosaur to turn into a puddle of crude oil?

  Dave
• 

  Valis

  Dave...don't be silly...eveyone knows that oil did not come from dinosaurs...Jehovah made oil and used his holy spirit to direct inventors in finding new ways to use it...why you ask? Well...to get his creation quibbling amongst themselves so he could prove his point to Satan that in the end there are some righteous people....yes I'm talking about the great crowd......people who use public transportation....*LOLOL*

  Sincerely,

  District Overbeer