what bible is true?

kls

As most of you know my hubby is in the jw. cult and every morning he reads his daily text.I asked why he needed that daily dont you know how to conduct yourself from day to day?He goes on to say ..it's bible passages,i said why not read the bible..he say's this text breakes it down and makes the daily reading easier ,read it see for yourself.Well i did just that i read passages in it and checked what it said to a bible. HUM o'k it matches his bible but this other bible my daughter gave me from her lutherin church it's different which one do i believe?When asking my hubby he said all bibles change some words so it's easier to understand but ,the new world translation, is the closest there is to the origional.My question what bible is right, what bible can i use to compare that he would see his is wrong.One that is non denominational that suits a certain religion.

seven006

KLS,

When I was in high school my girlfriend went to the Baptist church in town (I wasn't always the best little JW) and I told her the same thing you hubby told you. The JW's teach that their bible is the closest to the original and beck then they said that fact was backed up by the Smithsonian Institute. My girlfriend told this to her youth pastor so he wrote the Smithsonian and asked them about it. They sent a letter back giving the translations that they felt were the closest and also added that the New World Translation wasn't even close.

She showed me the letter and I refused to believe it. I wish I would have. It would have opened up my eyes to a lie and saved me a few more years of listening to more watchtower lies. It's amazing how a brainwashed mind can close to facts that are right in front of their eyes.

Personally I don't believe any of the myths that are written in any bible. They are all contrive stories that have been ripped off from other religions before Christianity became the popular one in Europe.

Here is a cut and paste of just a few similarities about the myths of Buddha, Krishna, and Jesus that is discussed in some of Doanes writings. This comparison is a "very small part" of the paralleling stories that are identical in Christian, Hindu and Buddhist religious myth.

1.Both Buddha and Jesus were baptized in the presence of the "spirit" of G--d. (De Bunsen, p. 45; Matthew 3:16.)
2.Both went to their temples at the age of twelve, where they are said to have astonished all with their wisdom. (Ibid., p. 37; Luke 2:41--48.)
3.Both supposedly fasted in solitude for a long time: Buddha for forty--seven days and Jesus for forty. (Arthur Lillie, Buddha and Early Buddhism (London, 1881), p. 100, Matthew 4:2.)
4.At the conclusion of their fasts, they both wandered to a fig tree. (Hans Joachim Schoeps, An Intelligent Person's Guide to the Religions of Mankind (London, 1967), p. 167; Matthew 21:18--19.)
5.Both were about the same age when they began their public ministry:
*"When he [Buddha] went again to the garden he saw a monk who was calm, tranquil, self--possessed, serene, and dignified. The prince, determined to become such a monk, was led to make the great renunciation. At the time he was twenty--nine years of age...". (Encyclopedia Americana (New York: Rand McNally and Co., 1963), vol. 4, p. 672.)
*"Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age" (Luke 3:23).

6.Both were tempted by the "devil" at the beginning of their ministry:
*To Buddha, he said: "Go not forth to adopt a religious life but return to your kingdom, and in seven days you shall become emperor of the world, riding over the four continents." (Moncure D. Conway, The Sacred Anthology (London, 1874), p. 173.)
*To Jesus, he said: "All these [kingdoms of the world] I will give you, if you fall down and worship me" (Matthew 4:9).

7.Buddha answered the "devil": "Get you away from me." (De Bunsen, p.38)
*Jesus responded: "...begone, Satan!" (Matthew 4:10).

8.Both experienced the "supernatural" after the "devil" left:
*For Buddha: "The skies rained flowers, and delicious odors prevailed [in] the air." (Ibid.)
*For Jesus: "angels came and ministered to him" (Matthew 4:11).

9.The multitudes required a sign from both in order that they might believe. (Muller, Science, p. 27; Matthew 16:1.)
10.Both strove to establish a kingdom of heaven on earth. (Beal, p. x; Matthew 4:17.)
*Buddha "represented himself as a mere link in a long chain of enlightened teachers." (Muller, Science, p. 140.)

11.Jesus said: "Think not that I have come to abolish the law, and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them" (Matthew 5:17).
12.According to the Somadeva (a Buddhist holy book), a Buddhist ascetic's eye once offended him, so he plucked it out and cast it away. (Ibid., p. 245)
*Jesus said: "If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out, and throw it away;" (Matthew 5:29).

13."Buddha taught that the motive of all our actions should be pity or love of our neighbor." (Ibid., p. 249)
*Jesus taught: "...love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" (Matthew 5:44).

14.Buddha said: "Hide your good deeds, and confess before the world the sins you have committed." (Ibid., p.28)
*Jesus said: "Beware of practicing your piety before men to be seen by them;" (Matthew 6:1) and "Therefore confess your sins one to another, and pray one for another, that you may be healed..." (James 5:16).

15.Both are said to have known the thoughts of others:
*"By directing his mind to the thoughts of others, [Buddha] can know the thoughts of all beings." (R. Spence Hardy, The Legends and Theories of the Buddhists Compared with History and Science (London, 1866), p. 181.)
*"But Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said: `Why do you think evil in your hearts?' " (Matthew 9:4).

16.After "healing" a man born blind, Buddha said: "The disease of this man originates in his sinful actions in former times." (Prof. Max Muller, ed., Sacred Books of the East (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1879--1910), vol. 21, p. 129f.)
*"As [Jesus] passed by, he saw a man blind from his birth. And his disciples said to him: `Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?' " (John 9:1--2).

17.Both were itinerant preachers with a close group of trustees within a larger group of disciples. (James Hastings, ed., Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics (New York: Edinburgh T. & T. Clark, 1918), vol. 6, p. 883; Matthew 26:20.)
18.Both demanded that their disciples renounce all worldly possessions. (Hardy, Monachism, p. 6; Luke 14:33.)
*"The number of the disciples rapidly increased, and Gautama sent forth his monks on missionary tours hither and thither, bidding them wander everywhere, preaching the doctrine, and teaching men to order their lives with self--restraint, simplicity, and charity." (Hastings, vol. 6, p.883)
*"And [Jesus] called to him the twelve [apostles], and began to send them out two by two.So they went out and preached that men should repent" (Mark 6:7, 12).

19.Both had a disciple who "walked" on water:
*To convert skeptical villagers, Buddha showed them his disciple walking across a river without sinking. (Lillie, p. 140)
*"He said: `Come.' So Peter got out of the boat and walked on the water and came to Jesus, but when he saw the wind, he was afraid, and beginning to sink he cried out: `Lord, save me!' " (Matthew 14:29--30).

20."One day Ananda, the disciple of Buddha, after a long walk in the country, meets with Matangi, a woman of the low caste of the Kandalas, near a well, and asks her for some water. She tells him what she is, and that she must not come near him. But he replies: `My sister, I ask not for your caste or your family, I ask only for a drought of water. She afterwards became a disciple of Buddha." (Muller, Science, p. 243)
*"There came a woman of Samaria to draw water. Jesus said to her: `Give me a drink.' For his disciples had gone away into the city to buy food. The Samaritan woman said to him: `How is it that you, a Jew, ask a drink of me, a woman of Samaria?' For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans" (John 4:7--9).

21.Each repeated a question three times:
*"The Buddha next addressed the bhikkhus and requested them three times to ask him if they had any doubt or question that they wished clarified, but they all remained silent." (Encyclopedia Britannica (New York: William and Helen Benton, 1974), vol. 2, p. 373.)
*"[Jesus] said to him the third time: `Simon, son of John, do you love me?' Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time: `Do you love me?'" (John 21:17).

22.Both received similar receptions:
*"The people swept the pathway, the gods strewed flowers on the pathway and branches of the coral tree, the men bore branches of all manner of trees, and the Bodhisattva Sumedha spread his garments in the mire, [and] men and gods shouted: `All hail.' " (Hardy, Legends, p.134)
*"And they brought the colt to Jesus, and threw their garments on it; and he sat on it. And many spread their garments on the road, and others spread leafy branches which they had cut from the fields" (Mark 11:7--8).

23.Both had an archival:
*"[Buddha's] chief rival was Devadatta, a cousin of the Buddha, who is represented as being jealous of his influence and popularity, and as repeatedly seeking to compass his death." (Hastings, vol. 6, p.883)
*"While [Jesus] was still speaking, Judas came, one of the twelve, and with him a great crowd with swords and clubs, from the chief priests and the elders of the people. Now the betrayer had given them a sign, saying: `The one I shall kiss is the man; seize him!' And he came up to Jesus at once, and said: `Hail, Master!' And he kissed him" (Matthew 26:47--49).

24.Before his death, Buddha said to his disciple: "Ananda, when I am gone, you must not think there is no Buddha; the discourses I have delivered, and the precepts I have enjoined, must be my successors, or representatives, and be to you as Buddha." (Hardy, Eastern Monachism (London, 1860), p. 230.)
*Before his "ascension," Jesus said to his disciples: "Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and, lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age" (Matthew 28:19--20).

25.When Buddha died: "The coverings of [his] body unrolled themselves, and the lid of his coffin was opened by supernatural powers." (De Bunsen, p. 49.)
*When Jesus died: "And behold, there was a great earthquake; for an angel of the L--rd descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone, and sat upon it" (Matthew 28:2).

26."In the year 217 B.C. Buddhist missionaries were imprisoned for preaching; but an angel, genie or spirit came and opened the prison door, and liberated them." (Thomas Thornton, A History of China from the Earliest Records to the Treaty with Great Britain in 1842 (London, 1844), vol. 1, p. 341.)
*"They arrested the apostles and put them in the common prison. But at night an angel of the L--rd opened the prison doors and brought them out" (Acts 5:18--19).

27.Both men's disciples are said to have been miracle workers. (Maria L. Child, The Progress of Religious Ideas Through Successive Ages (New York, 1855)vol. 1, p. 229, Acts 3:6--8.)

-------------------------
Now for the comparisons between Krishan and Jesus

1.Both were preceded by a "forerunner" born a short time before them (Maurice, Hindostan, vol. 2, p. 316; Luke 1:57.).
2.Each was born in a city away from home where his father was on tax business (H. H. Wilson, trans., The Vishnu Purana, A System of Hindoo Mythology and Tradition (London, 1840), book 5, chap. 3; Luke 2:1-7).
3.Krishna was born in a cave (Cox, vol. 2,p. 107).
Jesus was born in a stable (Luke 2:7). However, Quintus Tertullian (third century), St Jerome (fourth century), and other Church fathers claimed that Jesus, too, was born in a cave (Godfred Higgins, Anacalypsis: An Enquiry into the Origin of Languages, Nations and Religions (London, 1836), vol. 2, pp. 98-99).
Frederick W. Farrar, Nineteenth-Century Canon: That the actual place of Jesus' birth was a cave is a very ancient tradition, and this cave used to be shown as the scene of the event even so early as the time of Justin Martyr (A.D. 150) (Farrar, The Life of Christ (New York, 1876), p. 38).
4.In infancy, both Krishna and Jesus were sentenced to death by kings who viewed them as pretenders to the throne. Due to this threat:
Krishna's father was warned by a heavenly voice "to fly with the child to Gacool, across the river Jumna (Mons Dupuis, trans., The Origin of All Religious Worship (New Orleans, 1872), p. 134).
Jesus' father was warned in a dream, "...rise and take the child and his mother, and flee to Egypt..." (Matthew 2:13).
5.One of these kings then ordered "the massacre in all his states of all the children of the male sex during the night of the birth of Crishna" (J. Swain, Asiatic Researches, vol. 1, London, 1801. p. 259).
The other, Herod, "...sent and killed all the male children in Bethlehem, and in all that region, who were two years old or under..." (Matthew 2:16).
6.One of both Krishna and Jesus' first "miracles" performed as adults was the curing of a leper (Thomas Maurice, History of Hindostan (London, 1798), vol. 2, p. 319; Matthew 8:2-4).
7.Urged by Krishna to make a request, a man replied: " 'Above all things, I desire to have my two dead sons restored to life.' Immediately they were brought to life and came to their father" (Maria L. Child, The Progress of Religious Ideas through Successive Ages (New York, 1855), vol. 1, p. 68).
"While [Jesus] was thus speaking to them, behold, a ruler came in and knelt before him, saying: 'My daughter has just died; but come and lay your hand on her, and she will live....' But when the crowd had been put aside, he went in and took her by the hand, and the girl arose" (Matthew 9:18, 25).
8.Either a poor cripple or a lame woman came with "a vessel filled with spices, sweet scented oils, sandalwood, saffron, civet, and other perfumes, and made a certain sign on [Krishna's] forehead, casting the rest upon his head" (Maurice, Hindostan, vol. 2, p. 320).
"Now when Jesus was at Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, a woman came up to him with an alabaster box of very expensive ointment, and she poured it on his head, as he sat at the table" (Matthew 26:6-7).
9.Both washed the feet of their disciples (Maurice, Indian Antiquities (London, 1794), vol. 3, p. 46; John 13:5).
10.Both had a beloved disciple (Charles Wilkes, trans., The Bhagavat Gita, or Dialogues of Crishna and Arjoon, in Eighteen Lectures With Notes (London, 1785), p. 51; John 13:23).
11.Krishna said: "Let him, if seeking God by deep abstraction, abandon his possessions and his hopes, betake himself to some secluded spot, and fix his heart and thoughts on God alone" (Williams, Hinduism (London, 1877), p. 211).
Jesus said: "But when you pray, go into your room and close the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you" (Matthew 6:6).
12.Krishna said: "I am the light in the sun and the moon, far, far beyond the darkness. I am the brilliancy in flame, the radiance in all that's radiant, and the light of lights" (Ibid., p. 213).
Jesus said: "I am the light of the world, he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life" (John 8:12).
13.Krishna said: "I am the sustainer of the world, its friend and Lord. I am its way and refuge" (Ibid., p. 213).
Jesus said: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me" (John 14:6).
14.Krishna said: "I am the Goodness of the good; I am Beginning, Middle, End, Eternal Time, the Birth, the Death of all" (Ibid., p. 213).
Jesus said: "Fear not, I am the first, and the last, and the living one; I died, and behold I am alive for evermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hell" (Revelations 1:17,18).
15.Both "descended" to hell (Swain, Vol. 1. P. 237; I Peter 3:9).
16.Both "ascended" to heaven before witnesses (Higgins., p. 131; Acts 1:9).
17.Both are said to have been God incarnate:
"Crishna is the very Supreme Brahma, though it be a mystery how the Supreme should assume the form of a man" (Wilson, p. 492).
"Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of our religion; He manifested in the flesh..." (I Timothy 3:16).
18.Before death, Krishna was pierced with an arrows (Higgins, vol. 1, p. 144), and Jesus with a spear (John 19:34).
19.Both were crucified:
John P. Lundy, Nineteenth-Century Reverend: "I object to the crucifix because it is an image, and liable to gross abuse, just as the old Hindoo crucifix was an idol" (Lundy, p. 128).
Thomas Inman, Nineteenth Century Physician: "Crishna, whose history so closely resembles our Lord's, was also like him in his being crucified" (Inman, Ancient Faiths and Modern (London, 1868), p. 411).
20.When Krishna died, it is said that a black circle surrounded the moon, the sun was darkened at noon, the sky rained fire and ashes, and spirits were seen everywhere (Child, vol. 1, p. 71).
When Jesus died, the sun was darkened from the sixth to the ninth hour, graves were opened, and saints rose and entered the city (Matthew 27:45, 51-52).
21.Both were "resurrected" (Dupuis, p. 240; Matthew 28:6).
22."Krishna will return in the end days as an armed warrior, riding on a winged white horse. He will destroy the wicked then living. The sun and the moon will be darkened, the earth will tremble, and the stars will fall" (Chad ,vol. 1,p.75; Williams, Hinduism, p. 108).
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days [following Jesus' "return"] the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken" (Matthew 24:29).
---------------------------------------

Just something to think about in regard to myths.

Dave

Edited by - seven006 on 8 February 2003 22:5:4

ARoarer

The Witnesses like to quote from the King James and they also use the Easy Reader Version Bible for the Deaf when they conduct deaf bible studies. This bible, even though it is not a Watchtower bible they keep it with all thier other literature to purchase at the KH. Interestingly, there Easy Reader Version for the Deaf traslates "glorous ones" from the NWT, as angels, as do all other bibles. Also you can remind your husband that even though the Daily Text quotes scriptures, the Watchtower Corporation interprets it their way according to thier false teachings.

ARoarer

WOW!! Awsome, seven006. I thoroughly enjoyed your information, and gave me a lot to think about. It is so wonderful to be free of the Watchtower indoctrination, and to be able to use our critical thinking and our conscience to guide us in our life without the fear that God will kill us. To be set free by learning many truths and falshoods, and to be able to live in a way the Creator would have us live in regard to caring for our fellow man in a way that was taught by those represented in holy writings that are reflective in teaching the ways of an all loving Source of Creation. There are many truths in this Universe and who can know them all. For now it is good to know that when we finally end our journey, we can leave ourselves in the hands of the Source of our life and know that our goodness towards our fellow creatures human and animal will be how he will look upon us with satisfaction and the joy of his creating us.

Sangdigger

KLS, I wouldnt worry too much about the translations. Yes, the NWT the JW's use do muddy up some key passages to fit their own doctrine, but the basic message of the bible is still there in my opinion. (Salvation in Christ only)

The King James is based on the Codex receptus manuscript dated around 3rd to 4th century, and most other versions are based on the Sinaiticus and Vitanicus manuscripts wich are the oldest to date. Certain findings like the dead sea scolls have added additional proof to the authenticity of the bible, but between the two manuscripts, i dont think theres alot of difference.

What would concern me mainly is the fact that he doesnt read the bible alone, without the WTS publications explaining it all for him. As for the translations, the only way to see what is exactly being said say for example in the New Testament, is to look at the original Greek. The WTS published a book called the "New World Translation of the Greek Scriptures" Wich shows the original greek on the left hand side of the page, and thier own New World Translation on the right. If you want to show him the difference in his translation, and another, (I would reccomend the 1901 American Std Version wich uses the name Jehovah almost 7,000 times in the old testament, that will impress him, because he probably thinks the King James is the only other bible to use the name Jehovah, and then only seven times. Hopefully you can procure a copy) sit down with the WTS book (it has a purple cover--most JW's who have been in the org for a while have one) and your bible, and compare some key passages. Like Phillipians 2:6 and Hebrews 1:8. (you'll get a good laugh from the NWT rendering) Maybe he will see how they muddy it up on some passages to confuse the message.

I wish you the best in your endeavor.

Jim

A Paduan

An analogy

Readers digest put together some books that they considered good for teaching in language, culture and social studies - for both themselves and for the educators. But some students examined the collection for historical accuracy and felt duped - as they were students, they didn't realise that the books were not for 'History' - they hadn't learned the other subjects so they were still unsatisfied. Anyway, they downsized the collection and reprinted another one for themselves, claiming the new collection was better - citing problems with authenticity etc as the reason - the new books were handed out to anyone learning history.

As you would expect, a lot of arguments about history ensued - eventually, another bunch of students adjusted the text of the books to fit and make sense to themselves, claiming they had a right, by reason of extraordinary scholarship - indeed, they were so consumed with it that they began to think they were actually the characters in the books - other people thought they were nuts, but the 'relatively' non-violent nature of the obsession prevented them from being locked up - most of them anyway.

Edited by - a paduan on 9 February 2003 5:17:54

NewLight2

Try these links:

New World Translation Menu
http://www.holyscriptures.com/nwt.htm

THE NAME "JEHOVAH" IN THE NEW WORLD TRANSLATION
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/7831/jehovah.html

hooberus

Here are some of the differences in the lives of Budda and Jesus. Also while most of the accounts of the sayings of Jesus were written down within a relatively few years of his saying them, the accounts of Budda were transmitted orally and were written down centuries after his death. And many of the sayings of Budda may have been written much later. So could these have been interpolations from other sources? If so then some of the parallels with Jesus may not be genuine.

ttp://www.irr.org/yamauchi.html

Edited by - hooberus on 10 February 2003 22:56:5

jgnat

Utopian Raindrops started a great thread, Which Bible is the Best? The NWT is no longer the most contemporary English translation. You can look up various verses just to see what they look like online, without making any investment. Check out http://bible.gospelcom.net . It is fairly literal, except, in the few spots where the original conflicts with their doctrines (Divinity of Jesus, for instance).

logical

KLS, I wouldnt worry too much about the translations. Yes, the NWT the JW's use do muddy up some key passages to fit their own doctrine, but the basic message of the bible is still there in my opinion. (Salvation in Christ only)

Very true. At the end of the day, bibles throughout the ages have been slyly altered in one way or another for whatever reason, mostly to fit messed up doctrine. The WTS are not the first to do this, and they probably wont be the last. Who knows for sure that this hasnt already been done on the text it is translated from? How can you trust earthling man to keep anything sacred?

The only true Word of God is Christ, John 1:1, John 1:14, Revelation 19:13. Ask your friend to go to him instead of fulfilling John 5:39-40.

what bible is true?

Share this