Blowing your Trumpet

by refiners fire 16 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • refiners fire
    refiners fire

    Brothers (sisters) .

    As you may, or may not be aware, I am currently studying with the Witnesses again, from the Bible primarily, and it is agreed between myself and my study conductor that material will be examined relative to REVELATION 8. The scene of immediate particular interest: that immediately prior to the 7 TRUMPET BLASTS. Now I have a book from 1969 interpreting Revelation that I studied as a youth (Though my study conductor, of course, is ignorant of that fact. Lol) This book is called THEN IS FINISHED THE MYSTERY OF GOD (1969).

    Now, talking about the period immediately prior to the first TRUMPET BLAST this book states:

    QUOTE/ As the historic facts show. Gods tremendous pre Armageddon work was by no means finished at that date as regards the later ingathering of the great crowd. Reasonably then, the time for the opening of the 7 th seal would be at the start of this period. Let us accordingly locate ourselves at the start of the post war period at the transition from the year 1918 to 1919. From this standpoint we watch what the Apostle John saw.

    And when he opened the 7 th seal a silence occurred in heaven for about half an hour . Silence in heaven for about half an hour! But why? It was evidently a time for prayer to be heard from the earth. At the temple in earthly Jerusalem the offering of incense by the priest took about a half an hour. During this time the people worshipping outside kept silence while they engaged in mental prayer......."

    A couple of questions, Brethren. I need input.

    What HISTORICAL FACTS is he talking about that demonstrate the correctness of his claims that 1919 was significant?

    Why is it REASONABLE that the 7 th seal was opened at the start of 1919?

    Why is it EVIDENT that the half hour silence in heaven equals the remorseful prayers of the Remnant in 1919?

    Page 212 of this 1969 book claims that certain WATCHTOWER ARTICLES were significant, at this time, in fulfilling Revelation by HURLING FIRE TO THE EARTH . The book says:

    QUOTE / ....The fire of the heated issue of Gods Kingdom was thrust upon the earthly stage by the Remnant in 1919, undoubtedly under angelic guidance, yes under Christs guidance. Testifying to that fact are articles in issues of the Watchtower that year, such as HERALDS OF THE KINGDOM KILLED (May 1, 1919). KINGDOM OF HEAVEN AT HAND (May 15, 1919). THE KINGDOM OF GOD ( August 1, 1919). ANNOUNCING THE KINGDOM ( Sept 15, 1919)......

    In the next breath, these are likened to:

    QUOTE/ ..... EXPRESSIONS OF GODS SUPERNATURAL POWER..thunders, voices, lightnings, and AN EARTHQUAKE. There were thunderous storm warnings. Stormy voices, or sounds.....

    We get the picture. However brothers, I have a slight problem. It is in reference to the More recent book interpreting Revelation: REVELATION, ITS GRAND CLIMAX AT HAND ( 1988). Speaking of this exact same period, THIS book says on page 131:

    QUOTE/ .....The sincere Christians of the John class were perplexed. What did God want them to do next? When would they be taken up to heaven? An article entitled "The Harvest Ended-What Shall Follow?" appeared in the May 1, 1919, issue of TheWatchTower. It reflected this state of uncertainty and encouraged the faithful to continued endurance......

    And:

    QUOTE/ ..... But notwithstanding the momentary discouragement, there was a burning desire to proclaim the message of the kingdom."-See the September 15, 1919, issue of TheWatchTower, page 280........

    Now brothers, (and sisters) my concern is that the WATCHTOWER articles of PROPHETIC SIGNIFICANCE in the 1969 book are DIFFERENT from the ones mentioned ( and assumedly significant) in the 1989 book.

    What I need to know is, have the articles quoted from the 1969 book FALLEN FROM GRACE in terms of significance? Are they now perhaps considered to be among the APOSTATE WRITINGS from that period that we continually hear about?

    Inquiring minds would know.

    Anyway Let us press on:

    Page 213 of the 1969 book Includes a Witness convention in 1919, That at Cedar Point, as of PROPHETIC SIGNIFICANCE:

    QUOTE/.. .... Notable that year was the week long general convention at Cedar Point, Ohio. The public talk THE HOPE OF DISTRESSED HUMANITY was given Sunday Afternoon, September 7 th , by the then President, J.F.Rutherford.

    In the very next paragraph, terms such as " Divine lightnings of enlightenment flash to illuminate Bible Prophecies and Truths". are used referring to this speech and the "WORLD SHAKING" aftermath that it unleashed. Lol.

    That is from the 1969 book brothers. Now all this is fair enough ..(sisters).. except for one thing. The 1989 book states on page 131:

    QUOTE/ ....at Cedar Point, Ohio, U.S.A. Joseph F. Rutherford, recently released from prison and soon to be completely exonerated, boldly addressed that convention, saying: "Obedient to the command of our Master, and recognizing our privilege and duty to make war against the strongholds of error which have so long held the people in bondage, our vocation was and is to announce the incoming glorious kingdom of Messiah." That is the primary issue-God's Kingdom!.

    And:

    QUOTE/ ....the speaker said: "So pitiless was the onslaught of the enemy that many of the Lord's dear flock were stunned and stood still in amazement, praying and waiting for the Lord to indicate his will. . . . But notwithstanding the momentary discouragement, there was a burning desire to proclaim the message of the kingdom."-See the September 15, 1919, issue of TheWatchTower, page 280........

    Brothers.

    This more recent book doesnt even MENTION the WORLD SHAKING effect of the DIVINE LIGHTNING of JF Rutherfords talk " THE HOPE OF DISTRESSED HUMANITY".

    Why is that? Is Rutherfords speech now redundant? Or is it that it doesnt matter WHAT the Org said in 1919..... it was PROPHETICALLY SIGNIFICANT.

    Can someone of the ranks of the anointed offer council??

    Edited by - refiners fire on 11 February 2003 4:8:22

  • avengers
    avengers
    Now I have a book from 1969 interpreting Revelation that I studied as a youth (Though my study conductor, of course, is ignorant of that fact. Lol) This book is called THEN IS FINISHED THE MYSTERY OF GOD (1969).

    I was a bookstudy conductor the year this book was studied. Even in those days I had to put my question-marks at several places. I haven't even thought about it for years. Well, I'll check to see what point you're trying to make and will get back to you.

    ps Are you really getting bible study? You rat. You're scheming to do do something. I wonder what.

    Andy

  • refiners fire
    refiners fire

    Andy.

    The only point Im trying to make is that its amazing how the light keeps getting brighter and brighter.

    1919 Watchtower articles, formerly thought of as "Prophetically VERY significant" are now reduced to the status of merely "Prophetically significant".

    And 1919 Watchtower articles formerly unmentioned are now INCREDIBLY significant.

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    What's cooking, RF?

    You're up to something, aren't you?........aren't you???????

    Ozzie

  • avengers
    avengers
    the light keeps getting brighter and brighter

    Ah, it's so bright I'm blinded by it.

    I'm thinking of sueing the Watchtower for blinding me. Hope the rest in the (b)org does too.

    Hey RF. I'm just messing around. Got your point.

    Keep it up dude.

    Andy

  • johnny cip
    johnny cip

    refiners; sounds like you have a inlighting study going on. you are a tricky one ... seems that you are conducting to study.... i would hate to be in the shoes of these jw's when you finish... you go so much deeper than i ever went.... trust me i'll be taking notes.... have fun ...john

  • refiners fire
    refiners fire

    You know. This REVELATION- ITS GRAND CLIMAX AT HAND book is one of the funniest things Ive ever read.

    Check this out, from page 132:

    QUOTE /.. As the angels got ready to blow those trumpets, NO DOUBT they were also giving direction to a preparatory work on earth. From 1919 to 1922, the revitalized John class was busy in REORGANIZING the public ministry and building up publishing facilities. In 1919 the magazine TheGoldenAge, known today as Awake!, had been brought forth ..a trumpetlike instrument

    No doubt? Reorganizing?

    To REORGANIZE something that means it must have been PREVIOUSLY ORGANIZED . Id like to know when, exactly, THAT took place.

    Under the subheading of IDENTIFYING THE THIRD this masterpiece states:

    QUOTE/. As we shall see, when the first four trumpets are blown, plagues are inflicted on "a third" of the earth, of the sea, of the rivers and fountains of waters, and of the earth's sources of light But one section thereof is particularly guilty. One part-"a third"-should have known better! What is that "third"? It is Christendom!..

    Now some evidence for this QUANTUM LEAP into a conclusion might be appropriate. The book then offers its PROOF validating this claim that THE THIRD = CHRISTENDOM:

    QUOTE/. In the 1920's, her realm embraced about one third of mankind

    And there you go! Indisputable evidence. Based upon this amazing (revelationery) observation the Book then reveals:

    QUOTE/ Aptly represented by the symbolic third, Christendom receives potent, plaguing messages from Jehovah.

    I cant wait to read all about that one, but lets firstly have a look at the first TRUMPET BLAST. Page 133:

    QUOTE/. "Andthefirstoneblewhistrumpet.Andthereoccurredahailandfiremingledwithblood,anditwashurledtotheearth;andathirdoftheearthwasburnedup,andathirdofthetreeswasburnedup,andallthegreenvegetationwasburnedup." (Revelation8:7)..

    Now THAT is dramatic scripture. How is it fulfilled? With typically iron clad logic and reasoning the book launches upon its divinely revealed interpretation:

    QUOTE/ In the Bible, the word "earth" often refers to mankind.

    Since the second plague is on the sea, which also has to do with mankind, "the earth" must refer to the seemingly stable human society that Satan has built up

    So the EARTH equals stable society. What a conclusion. But this conclusion immediately leads to another conclusion. Which is backed up with the usual PROOF of the assertion. (Nothing):

    QUOTE/. The plague scenario reveals that Christendom's third of the earth is scorched by the searing heat of Jehovah's disapproval.

    Next, with a depth of prophetic understanding and scriptural insight that can ONLY have come from GOD Himself the book interprets the meaning of the TREES and the GRASS in this vision:

    QUOTE/.. Her prominent ones-standing like trees in the midst of her-are burned up by the proclaiming of Jehovah's adverse judgement.

    What staggering truths these are brothers! (Sisters) What blinding LIGHTNINGS of divine REVELATION! The TREES are prominent CLERICS like Archbishop Mannix and Archbishop Pell. And the grass:

    QUOTE/. All her hundreds of millions of church members, if they continue to support Christendom's religion, become like scorched blades of grass, spiritually wilted

    SPIRITUALLY WILTED .Cant you just see it now? Doesnt it all make perfect sense? What magnificent delicacies these are brothers, overflowing from the spiritual banquet table so lovingly laid by the everloving F and DS .

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    G'day R.F.,

    I'm very impressed! You've got it about right, no actually right on the button with these quotes. This one especially "tickles my fancy":

    QUOTE /.. As the angels got ready to blow those trumpets, NO DOUBT they were also giving direction to a preparatory work on earth. From 1919 to 1922, the revitalized John class was busy in REORGANIZING the public ministry and building up publishing facilities. In 1919 the magazine TheGoldenAge, known today as Awake!, had been brought forth ..a trumpetlike instrument

    No doubt? Reorganizing?

    To REORGANIZE something that means it must have been PREVIOUSLY ORGANIZED . Id like to know when, exactly, THAT took place.

    Just shows that us orstarlians aren't so bad!

    Cheers, Ozzie

  • johnny cip
    johnny cip

    AH! yes refiners; i see were you are going with this study.... after your get the jw's to COMMITT TO this BULL... you will drop the bomb on them , by pulling out the old wt's and reading them , to the jw's .... are they in for a SUPRISE!!!!! I WOULD HAve a tape measure handy, when you read them that g.a. gem on how you need to measure the demenions of their skull and face to see it they are intelegent enough to do the preaching work.... so when is your next study... wish i could come....happy stumping.....john

  • Buster
    Buster

    I haven't read the 1969 Finished Mystery book in while. But I have recently read the Babylon book and the similarities make it seem that Fred Franz wrote both. Now in the Babylon book, Franz makes references to historical facts and prophecy that point to 1919 as the time Christ chose them as his channel. I have notes of 'weak deductions', and 'cheap implications' all around those passages.

    Anyway, where he has added some of those historical facts, he only:

    1. Points to the release of Rutherford from prison as the main historical fact.

    2. As regards prophecy, he refers to an absurd 'rule of parallel' and ties the 'late1914 to early 1919' time period as somehow parallel to Christ's assention to heaven and the following 3-1/2 years. It is difficult to cite such casuisticism from memory. I have the pages dog-eared at home.

    From a larger view, I think that by the time the 60s rolled around, Franz was soooo close to Jehovah himself that no one would ever have dared to edit his writings for anything other than spelling. There are paragraphs in the Babylon book that are unitelligible. And he loads up his chapters with reference to facts that aren't there. When I read his stuff, I look for those references to 'reasonableness': That is where he puts his utterly unsubstantiated guesses and misleading logic.

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