Why, Why, Why did God create such a difference between Jews and Gentile....? (page 2)

James Mixon

Thanks Calebin for the insight.

Welcome back and happy to hear you are OK.

Finkelstein

Don't blame god, man made the difference of his own desire and initiative.

I would add, that Jewish identity is also a difference on religious sense versus nationality. Being Jew is also issue of someone cultural identity but not necessary correlate with strict religious sense. My in-laws are Orthodox Jews, but many are totally secular in the term of religion, while other maintain their culture, food, and heritage. They are proud Americans, who served this country for century. Also Jews look so differently, because their statehood was derived from literature instead specific nation-state. Their ancestry was deeply influenced by area they lived in the late antiquity. In Prague there were two different Jewish communities, one that came from the West and Spain and other that came from Byzantine empire. They left different culture behind until it was either assimilated or destroyed through the horrors of the 20th century.

I have to disagree with this statement:

This "Golden Age" of enlightenment opened us to advances in science, mathematics, even introducing logic into ancient religions. We are different in many of these areas because Westerners cut themselves off from us for a while and are still playing catch up

European dark age was due collapse of population sometimes up to 90% of the density it had in the peak of Roman Empire. For example Italian population decreased from 11 millions during the Imperial era to 2 millions by 550. However, by 1250 West Europe was the wealthiest region in the world until WWII, ahead with its technology over China, Arab world, and India. Europeans had already universities that by 1400 produced thousands of graduates in various topics every year. It was the technology that enabled Europeans to control every corner of this world. Through its history, Western Europe was NEVER conquered by non-European nation. Attila was defeated at the Chalon, Mongols depleted their force in Hungary when 90% of its armed forced died by 1242. During the Age of Exploitation, Europeans were disappointed what they find in Orient. Depopulated cites, backward regions, capital cities in ruins or built from woods. A lot had to do with Mongol conquest that threw Far East, Middle East, and Central Asia 500 years back. This region had not yet recovered from the wars of the great Khans. China, Korea are the exception, but it was not until modern era, when this happened.

CalebInFloroda

Kaik

I was referring to the Golden Age of the Iberian Peninsula, not the Far East.

The Golden Age that Jews speak of had to do with Seferad, modern Spain, Morocco, and Portugal. My family, the House of David, had planned to return from Seferad after the Persians took over, but when the Hasmoneans began to rule, the majority stopped the trip back. Only a minority ever returned to Jerusalem.

When the Second Temple fell, the rest of the House of David along with members of the tribe of Judah and Benjamin moved into Iberia by way of Rome and Greece, finally establishing itself after many generations and the rise of Islam. While the priestly Cohens moved into Ashkenaz and Europe fell into the Dark Ages, the Golden Age of Jewry in Iberia occurred.

The Golden Age ended when the Europeans introduced the Spanish Inquisition into Seferad, leading to the rape of my people and the Muslims and the eventual dismissal from our lands and homes with the Alhambra Decree of 1492.

kaik

Thanks for clarification Caleb. I thought that you referred to Middle East, because its golden age coincided with European dark age in 550-1000AD.

CalebInFloroda

Yeah, there are at least four eras of different cultures referred to as Golden Ages.

However the one you were mentioning did affect the Iberian Golden Age which eventually become the apple of the eyes of Ferdinand and Isabella. You might say it got its start with the other, so you weren't totally off.

kaik

Generally, Asian social and cultural collapse started in the 1200s after Mongol and Timur conquests which devastated entire continent from China to Syria. I had read some of the travelers diaries into Middle East and many were extremely disappointed from material, social, and cultural development in Orient. I remember like mentioning visiting a capital city of Persian empire which was nothing more than pile of rubble. Incredible poverty in China even for European medieval/renaissance standard. This gap between West and Far East was finally bridged in the 21st century. Nonetheless, Italy was in the 1400-1600 the wealthiest region in the world, and later Amsterdam was the wealthiest city in world until its disposition in the 18th century. Many had wondered what caused the region between Northern Sea and Mediterranean to accumulate such large wealth, but I tend to agree with the opinion that it was the decentralization of the power and economies that helped the community to survive better.

Simon

The difference is not between Jews and Gentiles. The difference is between "people who invented a god" and "people who opposed the people who invented a god".

God didn't invent the difference, the people who invented god invented him and built their differences into him.

James Mixon

Yes I agree Simon. Bur for a believer and Jews, Deuteronomy 7:6 For you are a

people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you out of ALL

peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession.

Why would God do that when he knew it will cause division. Your thoughts

believers..What about the rest of mankind, He sh---t on them?

CalebInFloroda

Jews teach that G-d had a purpose for each and every race, each and every people. Every national group has a reason to exist and a destiny, and Jews teach that their point of view is not necessarily unique.

Jews don't believe we are special. We might have a purpose in life, but it is no more important than the purpose of another ethnic group that worships another god or that we are more enlightened than individuals who have no religion. Like a tapestry, every thread is important, not just the ones that might play an apparently prominent part in the pattern. You start pulling at one, they all come apart. They rely on one another.

The Jewish mythos demonstrates the earliest beliefs about the place the Hebrews played on the world stage, but it is only the most ancient and basic of understandings. It is very old, and very primitive. The Jewish understanding has changed dramatically for the most part, and unlike Christians who try to keep the primitive Word as valid today as it was thousands of years ago, Jewish thought and theology has evolved far past the mythology you are considering.

Even the terms "God" and "monotheism" are highly primitive concepts of the Deity compared to what the Jews connect to in our day. While Christians may keep rehashing the relic of the Bible, the Jews have moved on in an increasing manner (which is why you can have Torah-observant humanistic or atheist Jews). Jewish theology has evolved far from the burning bush, Old Man in the Sky images so many debate about here. It is highly developed and far beyond anything found in Christianity. For many Jews, G-d is not even personal or even transcends existence while at the same time being the definition of it. Existence of G-d and belief of G-d are often irrelevant issues to the most religious and observant Jew as well.

You have to move past the Hebrew Scriptures, into the Midrash and Talmud and far beyond to understand where Jews are today. For us G-d also evolves, changes, learns, becomes better at being G-d along with all the other dimensions I have mentioned above. The monotheism in the Scriptures is only mythologically reflected in its most primary terms. Jews have moved past that. What you find in the Bible is for puppies. The concepts you have to have to understand Judaism and its current understandings about G-d are for much mature and bigger dogs.

One last word: don't expect it to be perfect either or claims of it being the ultimate truth. Judaism has moved past even those ways of looking at things.

Why, Why, Why did God create such a difference between Jews and Gentile....?

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