How much do JW's RESPECT their kids?

by anti-absolutism 10 Replies latest jw friends

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  anti-absolutism

  I strongly believe that it is VERY difficult to be a good parent in the Borg!! If you think about it, the parents are basically trained to look at their kids as if they are lesser human beings than them..... you know the old head of the house crap!!

  I know from my personal experience, I was df'd in 1992, but I never made the DEFINITE decision to never go back until 1997.

  When I made that decision to never go back, my cousin, (a never in), but never condemning me while I was in either, said to me , with a wonderful glow in his eyes, "Isn't it nice to not KNOW EVERYTHING?" It was one of the most profound statements ever made to me, for it made me realize how CLOSED my mind had been.

  This brings me to the main point of the inability of JW's to respect their kids:

  My oldest (of four) kids was born on August 2nd, 1994. My son was two and a half at the time that I realized that the Borg was the wrong thing for me. He was at that wonderful age of developping HIS OWN personality. (Absolutely no sarcasm intended there.) My viewpoint towards my son also changed drastically at that point where my mind became open.

  When he was born I thought I was going to spend the next 20 years of my life teaching him how to become a man. After my mind-opening experience, I began to look at the reality being more to the fact that he was going to spend the first 20 years of his life teaching ME how to be a man.

  Do you think it was due to the JW holier than thou attitude? Or the head of the household crap? Or do you think that our MINDS just never function properly when closed?

  I would love some input and if your experiences are similar.... Thanks.....

  Brad
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  anti-absolutism

  I should also mention that by my son teaching me how to be a man, he would also become a wonderful father in waiting. Brad
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  blackout

  When he was born I thought I was going to spend the next 20 years of my life teaching him how to become a man. After my mind-opening experience, I began to look at the reality being more to the fact that he was going to spend the first 20 years of his life teaching ME how to be a man.

  WOW! I really respect that what you said about your son teaching you to be a man, what a wonderfull thing.

  I think the org is not really focused on haveing a good and happy family life, they are focused on control, that is all that concerns them.
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  CoonDawg

  I occasionally visit another "approved" JW site. A time or two the discussion has turned to children and I always get the same message, that kids are to be able to turn on and of their being a child. They are to sit still and shut up for minimum of 5 meetins a week and then you count field service. Sheesh...when are they supposed to be a kid? I too have been greatly influenced by being a parent. I take the lessons I learned from how badly F*cked up my parents were in their idea of good parenting...and try to apply them in my relationship w/ my daughter. I personally think that, aside from publicly endorsed corporal punishment of children, one of the biggest things I see that is a total lack of respect by a parent towards a child is so many JW's figuring that since they will "live forever" there's no need to plan for life insurance or other things that can and do have profound impacts on their children. I can't begin to tell you how many widows I've seen left with NOTHING to support their kids on, pay the funeral expenses, etc. The only thing many have is what pitance they get from SSI (here in the states).

  The thing about JW's and headship is that the priciple gets lost in the excersise. If a parent is loving in teaching their kid to respect authority (parental or otherwise) rather than beating them into submission...there's nothing wrong with that. JW's for some reason tend to forget the love part and just hammer in on the obedience part.

  Coon
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  Scully

  The pressure to conform is a powerful force within the JWs. Since your approval ratings and thereby your Privileges TM are doled out based on your performance as an individual in terms of meeting attendance, field service, answering at the WT Study TM , that's a tough row to hoe when you are an independent adult, male or female.

  For a husband and father, though, it's even tougher, because your wife and children are a reflection of your worthiness to attain Privileges TM in the congregation. If your wife isn't the demure personification of the "quiet and mild spirit", you are seen as not exercising your Headship TM properly. If your children do not sit perfectly still through two hours of meetings on Sunday mornings and Thursday nights and another hour on Tuesday night, you aren't Disciplining TM them properly. If you have a little boy who has so much energy that he runs up to the doors during Field Service TM and rings the doorbell before you have a chance to get to the door yourself, you aren't doing your job as a parent. The need to be in control of your family at all times pretty much obliterates the concept of respect for a child's being and needs as they arise.

  Being a JW child/wife often means having your own personality supressed in order to accommodate the advancement of your father/husband in the organization. You learn very early on that if you screw up, your dad/husband can have his Privileges TM removed. That's not something anyone needs to have on their conscience. Especially not a kid.

  Love, Scully
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  A Paduan

  The inferiority of offspring and superiority of 'elders' is an ontological framework that runs all through the org.

  I have often thought that a significant reason why jws can't accept the idea of Jesus being God, is because that's how they see their own children - never really quite their equal, but inevitably needing their important 'benevolent advice'.

  No doubt 'honour your parents' often translates as 'obey them' in jw language.

  How much do they respect them - not much if they don't tow the 'superior' family line, that's for sure.
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  kat_newmas

  I am certainly no Advocate of JW's, as I lost my entire family to them twenty years ago. I can only speak from my personal experience. My parents believed all the things you have spoken about... honor, obey, spair the rod... etc.

  But they raised me to respect them, and I do. It may be a part of the whole "mind control" thing, but I have to say they filled me with a sense of conceince that I dont often find in others. While my father taught me the doctrine of Jw's, both my parents were careful to include a true spiritual surrounding. I have since then, found my own path to the dweller in the great beyond; but I believe without the foundation they provided me with.... I would not be so confident in my own beliefs today.

  I think in today's society, perhaps they are a "necesary evil" of sorts. I mean we cant just let the whole world run loose without morality, and conceince. Not that these people are any more moral than any other religion.You find screw ups in everything produced by man. There are those people though, that are not capable of finding that for themselves, and must be taught by a firm hand.

  It was perhaps SURVIVING my parents religion, that made me the strong and independent person that I am now. So, do I plan on running my kid out to the nearest Kingdom Hall, to teach him or her a thing or two about life? NO. . . But I have always hoped that if my wife and I, have children of our own, that we could provide the same... intensity, of spirituality.... that I had growing up. A respect for the beauty of the earth, and willingness to treat others with kindness, regaurdless of what color they are.

  So, respect? I dont know if I ever thought of it in those terms or not... but they did do something right. Even if their methods made my teen age life a living hell. Do the ends, justify the means , is maybe a better question. I dont know.. that's my two cents.
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  animal

  My wife and kids were never exposed to the JWs, other than me chasing them off the property.

  My oldest just turned 18, and has only had me as an example for how to be a "man". There are many definitions of being a "man", so who knows which is "right". As I tell people, I bet Charlie Mansons mom thought she did a good job raising him.....

  I make sure they are not afraid to tell me anything, period. This is all done by tone, in how I react to them and thier issues. If I come off like they are dumbasses, they will clam up. If I come off like a beast, they will avoid me. So, I dont! And the things they tell me.....

  Kids are fun, and should be able to be fun and have fun. Getting slugged in a kingdom hall while sitting in the front row sucks for any kid. I remember it well.

  Animal
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  CoonDawg

  I mean we cant just let the whole world run loose without morality, and conceince

  Kat, this bring in a whole separate philisophical debat on "what is morality?" and who has the right to define it. From a strictly judeo-christian standpoint, the answer would be the bible. The only problem with this is that this view takes for granted that the bible is more than a collection of Jewish legends with life lessons in it. Sorry, but one of the ideas that has failed and continues to fail is that ANYONE can define what is "moral" and then legislate that. Just think about the old laws that are on the books about sexual conduct. Isn't it amazing that in many states in the US, that cunnilingus and anal sex are still "illegal"? Don't you find it intrusive that anyone would have the temerity to decide for you and yours what is lawful and what is not? They legislate what you can view and what you cannot? Sorry, but to me, that simply doesn't wash. Religion has little to do with wether or not a person is an upstanding, respectful and productive citizen of his community.

  Coon
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  Dawn

  My son was 4 when I was DF'd - but I did not fully get out of the mind control until he was about 12. I have always loved my kids and they were first priority in my life - in and out of the borg.

  But I would have to say that my perception of our relationship has changed. As a JW I thought of my son as MINE - he belonged to me. Not in a bad way mind you - I just didn't think of him as his own person but an extension of ME.

  Now I believe that he is a separate spiritual being that is not MINE but belongs to GOD - I am here as his caretaker to guide him with the knowledge I have gained, and his cheerleader to build him up and praise him when he's accomplished something - but he was never an extension of me and never belonged to me. I'm was just lucky enough to have been chosen to be his guide.