Desire to talk to an elder

by Eppie 33 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  jgnat

  Welcome, Eppie, I love your name! A sweet gramma Newfie neigbour of mine is an Eppie too.

  I just have so many questions left. Are you exploring what you believe and why you believe it? I think a personal exploration and study (like the book you read) will be far more productive than going back to the hall. You read the literature at the KH in the past. It has not changed. I suggest you spread your wings and read a wider variety of books. There are also great links and resources on this site.

  I just want to talk to a real JW again. How about some funky and funny xJW's? You can openly discuss your experiences and fears without fear of judgement.

  I could of course talk to my parents as they are still JW, but I don't want to give them hope that there is a chance that ill come back (not very soon anyway). You can see the danger, can't you? As soon as you open a dialoge with a real JW, their only goal will be to bring you back to the fold. They will despise your current lifestyle.

  How are the guidelines? If I do talk to him and will be very negative, is there a chance that i can be dfd just based on that? Yes, if you are unrepentant. And you do still sound like you truly enjoy your independence.

  I am also very afraid that ill burst into tears and tell him every stupid (in their eyes, i had lots of fun ;)) things i've done Yes, that would be embarrassing. And very unlikely that you will get understanding.

  as i always feel guilty in front of God for doing them. I think you want to confess to somebody because of guilt. As had been said above, anybody other than an Elder would be safer to confess to. An Elder's job is to judge the severity of your sin, if you are truly repentant, and if you are redeemable or not. Nevermind that forgiveness is in the hands of Jesus Christ, who died for your sins already. The elders find it necessary to put their two cents in.

  Are you at college? I bet there is a great nondenominational pastor around, well versed in of various religions, who would be a willing ear. Think about it.
• 

  sandy

  EPPIE, I WOULD BE VERY CAREFUL IF I WERE YOU COMING ON THIS WEB BOARD. I AM NOT SURE WHAT I AM DOING ON HERE. MAY I ASK HOW OLD ARE YOU? I WENT THROUGH A SIMILAR THING AS YOU, I THINK. I STOPPED GOING TO MEETINGS COMPLETELY AT 20. THEN A COUPLE OF YEARS LATER I WAS SO CONFUSED. I WENT TO MY SISTER FOR HELP AND SHE DIRECTED ME TO THE ELDERS. I WAS GOING THROUGH SOME SERIOUS PROBLEMS MAINLY BECAUSE OF MY CHILDHOOD. I WAS SEXUALLY ABUSED FROM THE TIME I WAS 4 TO ABOUT 9 OR 10. I WAS ACTING OUT MY DEPRESSION BY BEING A LITTLE LOOSE AND CHOOSING ALL THE WRONG BOYFRIENDS. I HAVE TO ADMIT THAT TWO OF THE THREE ELDERS WERE VERY LOVING AND AS UNDERSTANDING AS THEY COULD POSSIBLY BE. I REALLY FELT JEHOVAH WAS BACKING THEM WITH HIS SPIRIT. I WAS NOT DISFELLOWSHIPPED BECAUSE I REPENTED AND SHOWED THAT ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS. BUT ONE PROBLEM DID ARISE WHICH IS WHY I AM IN-ACTIVE NOW. I CANNOT PROVE IT BUT I TRULY BELIEVE ONE OF THE ELDERS THAT WAS IN MY COMMITTEE MEETING TOLD HIS WIFE AND FAMILY SOME OF MY MOST PERSONAL EMBARRASSING SINS AND SOME OF MY INNERMOST THOUGHTS. HIS STEPDAUGHTER MADE A COMMENT THAT SOUNDED SO MUCH LIKE MY PERSONAL SITUATION DURING ONE OF THE MEETINGS AND THEN LOOKED OVER IN MY DIRECTION. I WAS SITTING VERY NEAR TO HER AT IN ANGLE WHERE I COULD EASILY SEE HER. I FELT SO HUMILIATED I NEVER RETURNED TO THAT HALL AGAIN. IT HAS BEEN ALMOST 4 YEARS NOW. I HAVE ATTENDED THE MEMORIALS AND A COUPLE OF FUNERALS BUT I HAVE NOT RETURNED TO THAT CONGREGATION. IT COULD ALL BE A COINCIDENCE WITH THAT SISTER BUT, SINCE I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT ONE PARTICULAR ELDER HAS PASSED ALONG CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION IN THE PAST, I KNOW IN MY HEART HE DID TELL HIS FAMILY MY PERSONAL PROBLEMS. I DO NOT BLAME ALL THE ELDERS OR ALL JWS THOUGH. I WAS JUST SO ASHAMED THAT I DIDN’T WANT TO SHOW MY FACE AGAIN. AND AS TIME WENT ON IT WAS JUST EASIER TO NOT GO TO MEETINGS. NOW SINCE SO MUCH TIME HAS GONE BY I AM HAVING DOUBTS ABOUT JW AND RELIGION IN GENERAL. I DO BELIEVE IN GOD. IF I CHOOSE TO GO BACK I WILL TELL AN ELDER I KNOW I CAN COMPLETELY TRUST. SOMEONE WHO IS NOT JUDGMENTAL. DESPITE WHAT PEOPLE SAY ON HERE THERE ARE TRULY GOOD PEOPLE IN THAT ORGANIZATION WHO WANT TO HELP YOU SPIRITUALLY. JUST LIKE ALL RELIGIONS THOUGH, THERE ARE BAD SEEDS. I WISH I COULD TALK TO YOU PRIVATELY BECAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE WE ARE IN A SIMILAR SITUATION. I AM AFRAID TO GIVE YOU MY EMAIL ADDRESS. I THINK SOME PEOPLE ON HERE TRULY HATE JW’S. I CANNOT AGREE WITH THEM. I HOPE I HELPED YOU IN ANY WAY.
• 

  praying_mantis

  Eppie, you will ulitmately decide to do what YOU want to do. Almost all of us have been where you are right now. In my own experience, when I decided to talk to the elders, naively expecting help, I felt nothing but REGRET afterwards. If you feel guitly now, you will feel even guiltier once you are before a bunch of elders. And more than likely, they will force you to come to a decision regarding where your loyalties lie. I had faded for a good year or so, and they tracked me down. They hit me when I was already falling apart, and their blows were well aimed. As far as your relationship with God, do your own research. Sometimes, the best guidance comes from within yourself.
• 

  SheilaM

  Sandy:

  Finding an elder you can trust is going to be more difficult than you think. In all my years in the dubs all the elders told their wives everything which got passed on and on and on. I have NEVER spoken to one without regretting it in one way or another. Your instincts are leading you the right way please follow them
• 

  wheelwithinwheel

  In my experience a lot of elders can't keep their mouth shut. They have to share what they know about you. This sharing varies from the wife, other elders, the C.O. to anyone who's interested; depending on the elder you confide in. As others have said here also, keep in mind that even a good friendly elder will turn on a dime to df you if he see fit. I think you should see a therapist if you really feel the need to work out feelings. If it's religious questions bothering you, go see some religious counsellor. You'll probably find yourself more at ease to talk to someone you don't know anyway.

  Above all keep up the research... and I believe you'll eventually feel no further need to talk to a J-dub elder.
• 

  jgnat

  Sandy, you got three pages of response to your thread, "Is everybody here a JW basher?" and you still don't get it? Sure, there are plenty of sincere individuals in the congregation. But they are constricted by an organization that places compassion as a distant second to other concerns.
• 

  Eppie

  Dear all,

  (((((((You are all so nice people!)))))))

  Thanks so much for the replies! I am most definitely not going to do anything on an impulse, especially not after all your nice words.

  Guest77: mixed emotions has become my motto almost nowadays ;)
  LovesDubs: so nice to say those things, thanks!
  Liberty: Nope, didn't do all the things you mentioned, solely the other things you mentioned ;)
  Yeah, Eppie is the nickname my 'second dad' gave me, but unfortunately he doesn't want to talk to me anymore as i am faded. Am still using it though :)

  I think you are all very right. It is not at this moment that I am looking for another religion (hell I am just happy I could leave this one). But the story is a bit complicated: as long as I was a JW I hated people that had double-lives, so as soon as I found out that I was kind of doing the same I decided to step out of the religion (to DA myself), and told my dad about that. After I also had a meeting with my grandpa (who was an elder, but recently died) they convinced me not to leave. They said: 'don't bring so many trouble on yourself, just do all the things you feel you want to do, be silent and fade away. In that way you will always leave the door open to come back'. As I was very happy that they were not saying that they would never want to see me anymore I decided to obey their wishes. But it bothers me that I am still officially a JW, and what even bothers me in a strange way is that JWs never came to visit me, it is as if they are more worried about getting new people than that they take care of 'their own'. I would love to be officially out, i sometimes walk around with my boyfriend and then we're smoking and I just hope to run in to a JW so it will all be over. The problem is that I feel bad, for example every time i have sex, not because I think i am doing a sin, but because it is some kind of fear for God build up in me. Seriously, i do not sleep around (anymore) and am really in love with him so I don't think there is smth bad in that, but as i am still an official JW it feels just bad, as if i am hiding and cannot be myself.

  I hope this makes any sense at all for someone

  (((((((SANDY))))))) I already replied to another post of you this day that I think our stories are quite similar! Please give me your email address so I can email you! You can send it to [email protected] (if i am correct). I would love to meet you maybe (also depends upon the country where you live of course ;).

  And so far I will promis not to go to the elder, and I promise that as soon as i feel the urge i will just join into the chat and talk to you nice people,

  Thanks again all

  Eppie
• 

  Gamaliel

  Eppie (and Sandy too),

  Eppie: We have been out of the JWs for 25 years, and we caused a stir when we did, yet we still get calls and visits by JWs with questions. Some treat us like we never left. We still love a lot of our friends dearly, and this includes people who may never speak to us again. There are elders who seemed like true loving shepherds, like a father to us, and we know they truly loved us, too. I would still love to contact some of these people and have offered a smile when I have seen them. Now and then I'm surprised at their reaction on the street or on a train, it's painful to see that love turn to a look of disgust or hatred. And that's the problem. With some, the love is deep and true, and with some, even if you thought it was, it might have been shallow. I know two people who were in exactly the same situation you were who wanted to seek out a particular elder to speak to again because they were sure of that elder's fatherly love. In both cases, the elder escalated it into a federal case (judicial case) shunning started afresh. (In one case, he was already being shunned in a small way, but now that the elders forced his true feelings out into the open, they have cancelled all business dealings, and encouraged all in the circuit to boycott this brother's business.) The other thing to remember is that even the best elder may think that in all sincerity, since there was a special trusting relationship, that they are now the one in the best position to make you see that the authority of the organization is paramount. They think that it is now their duty to bring you back, even if that means disfellowhipping you for now, so that you will see how desparate your situation is and come crawling back. I know many elders who wouldn't do this on their own, but they are all under the "spell" of the authority structure.

  Sandy: I still feel hurt when I see people "bashing" the JWs unfairly. JWs do deserve to have the truth told about them, just like JWs think they are telling the truth about other religions when they "bash" them. (JW "bashing" of other religions has taken on a much calmer tone in the last 50 years, but if you look at the core message, that Jehovah will kill billions of people in all those other religions, it's still implicit bashing.) There are many loving people there, but their judgment is often skewed by an organization. Organizations have no concience. Organizations create rules and laws that break the human spirit. It is difficult to break free from the legalistic control that binds us through guilt, fear and uncertainty. If you want to learn about how organizations with the best of intentions invariably become absurdly legalistic, read the many websites that discuss the kinds of mistakes the JWs have made, or read Ray Franz 2 books. (Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom)

  Gamaliel
• 

  ISP

  If you have any substantive questions about the JWs or the WTs...you may as well ask them here on the board. Its less risky!

  ISP
• 

  Swan

  Dear Eppie,

  Wow, I can sure relate to this:

  I decided to step out of the religion (to DA myself), and told my dad about that. After I also had a meeting with my grandpa (who was an elder, but recently died) they convinced me not to leave. They said: 'don't bring so many trouble on yourself, just do all the things you feel you want to do, be silent and fade away. In that way you will always leave the door open to come back'.

  I to decided to DA myself because my life was no longer in line with the teachings of the JWs and I thought that would be the honorable thing to do. My family all pressured me not to. Even my aunt who has been strong in the JW faith all her life, is married to an elder, and I thought very devout, wanted to make a compromise. She said that if I would remain a JW, I could do whatever I want in the privacy of my own home and the family would look the other way.

  That absolutely floored me! As far as I had ever known growing up, there was no compromise. All the articles, studies, convention dramas, etc. were absolutely dead set against having secret lives or double standards. According to the WTBTS there could be no compromise. I grew up believing this, yet here was my family willing to look the other way (nudge, nudge, wink, wink as Eric Idle would say) and compromise their integrity to Jehovah.

  I am glad to know that I was not the only one whose family did that. Of course, I took the opposite route that you did and proceeded with the DA as I thought it more honorable at the time. More honorable? Ha. I don't know now. I sometimes think I played right into the Society's hand by doing that. That's exactly what they wanted of me and now my family is totally cut off from me and has been for 9 years this very week. I often wonder what would have happened if I had gone the route you did. It hurts so much. I am glad you were able to work out a compromise with your family. Don't do anything to jeopardize that. It is a very good pact with them that you have going. I wish I could be in your shoes sometimes.

  Tammy