Can Good Exist Without Evil??

by Sargon 15 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Sargon

  Some ponderings:

  The laws of Physics tell us that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Good and evil are equal and opposites of the same concept. If we were to picture the relationship between them as a giant scale; with good (such as love, hope, charity) balancing out evil (hate, despair greed). If evil were removed from this scale, would not good become meaningless as there is nothing to measure it against. After all what is peace without war, hope without despair, starvation without plenty...? Would the elimination of evil remove lifes challenges and create a stagnation of human creativity? Or would good just become a concept of degrees of goodness, ie. this is more good than that?

  I don't think good can exist without evil. Any thoughts on the matter??
• 

  SixofNine

  After all what is peace without war, hope without despair, starvation without plenty...?

  Peace w/o war is peace, a time w/o violence. It's really nice.

  Hope w/o dispair is hope, a view of the future that is positive. (this one is more of a contrast item, I'll grant you, but it is also far more conceptual and mental than peace/war and plenty/starvation)

  Plenty w/o starvation (I assume you mean?) is plenty, a time when one has the neccessities of life abundant.

  Good and evil are not opposites, imo.
• 

  kat_newmas

  I dont think in terms of Good and Evil... more like Loving and Cruel. God is "all things" wich is a very broad statement. God is both happy and angry, loving and cruel. All the emotions that humanity is capable of.... are the same things that make up god.

  I am not suggesting that god doesnt care what happens. But Good and Evil, are terms that indicate that you either "break" or "follow" some rules. Most of the "rules" part came from man. God has provided a cycle of life (and death) that allows life to exist on earth. The agenda of man, and his terms of "good and evil" have little to do with the Dweller of The Heavens. That wich is far beyond man's comprehension. Even Jw's believe you would "go blind" if you truly saw God. Man will continue to try to comprehend the Dweller of the Heavens.... we will put into terms of "good and evil" a being that is of far greater conceince than ourselves.

  ... look around you at how the rest of the animal kingdom has LAWS of their own. Man is no different, we live by those same laws.

  By the way, that brings me to the whole war thing right now.... see.. .animals... just marking their territory and fighting over food and females. The "Man Packs" are locked in battle. Take my advice....

  "just avoid the humans", I will personally, stick with the cats. They remain nuetral, they know that they are above man and his silly games.
• 

  funkyderek

  The concept of good requires the existence of the concept of evil for it to make sense. That does not necessarily mean that there must be an equal amount of good and evil, or even that there must be any evil at all. It's conceivable that everyone on earth could be well-fed. There's certainly enough food. In that case there would be no starvation. The concept of starvation would still be just as meaningful though. Similarly, the existence of evil is not necessary for the concept of evil to be meaningful.
• 

  crinklestein

  This phylosophical arguement has always irritated me. Are you saying that one can't have peace unless there's an opposite environment to compare it against? Are you honestly saying that if a society lived in peace without evil for hundreds of years that, because they haven't had any evil or war to make a COMPARISON against, that they aren't actually living in peace?

  Give me a break! Just because you lack data for a comparison doesn't mean that you can't be happy. I could live the rest of my life without evil and war and be happy. If we lived in a eutopia would you actually WANT war and evil just so you a basis for comparison? That is idiotic.

  If a brand new company starts up this year...they do ALOT of business...they bring in ALOT of money...they become very successful in what they do...just because they have no data from last year to compare this year to... does that mean that they were NOT successful this year? No! They were still very successful, even though they haven't yet seen failure. They still racked in a ton of money. They still got alot of business. They still got alot of contracts to keep them busy for the next year. But just because of the simple fact that they don't have any figures from last year means nothing and has nothing to do with whether or not they were successful.

  In order for you to enjoy a glass of milk, do you have to occassionally drink a glass of SPOILED MILK, just so you say that you are thankful for the GOOD milk that you have now? No.

  In order for you enjoy your hamburger, do you occassionally have to get sick from food poisoning from a bad hamburger? No.

  In order for your mariage to be a happy one, do you have to suffer years of infidelity by your spouse just so you can have a base of reference of what's bad in a marriage? No.

  In order for you to enjoy good health do you have to suffer from a major illness just to have a stupid comparison? No.

  I gotta tell ya, I am very happy never having recieved any burns from a fire. I could live the rest of my life and enjoy my burn-free skin. Does this mean that I have to set myself on fire in order to REALLY be happy with that? I don't think so.

  This is a stupid phylosophical, unrealistic outlook on peace and happiness. Maybe it's thinking like this that the world is the way that it is.
• 

  Sargon

  sixofnine:

  I'd have to agree, peace and plenty can stand on their own and be just that, they don't need an opposite to support their existence. I think however hope does need an opposite to fully thrive.

  Kat:

  I think the concept of good and evil can exist separate from a concept of a Creator. However if one chooses to beleive in a creator then one must realize that He had to have created both concepts. It seems all of existance is governed by rules. Man is just another part of the Animal Kingdom, hence he should be governed by the same rules. Mans intelligence separates him from the rest of the animals and this is why he diverges from the rest of the pack. Man alone in the animal world has a concept of his past and future.

  Derek:

  You're close to the point I'm trying to clarify. Unfortunately I picked a bad example of evil by mentioning starvation and plenty. For good to make sense there has to be an understanding of evil. Interesting, this would provide a basis for good to exist without evil actually being present.

  Crinklestein:

  You've misunderstood what I'm trying to figure out. I don't actually want war for peace to make sense. But how would you know you've got good health if no-ones ever been sick. Without a knowledge of illness one might not realize what one actually has. It's never the quest for knowledge, Crink, that makes the world the way it is, it's the suppression of knowledge. As long as humankind is willing to honestly question it's motives, it may be able to better itself.

  Derek's point:

  the existence of evil is not necessary for the concept of evil to be meaningful.

  Back to one of my initial questions: would the elimination of evil remove many of lifes challenges and result in a stagnation of creativity
• 

  crinklestein

  Why would good be meaningless if you have nothing opposite to compare it to? It would still be good and it would still cause people to be happy for it. I have no idea what it feels like to be dying of a terminal disease. That doesn't mean I don't have the ability to know that I don't WANT to be dying and to know that I am better off NOT to be dying. I don't NEED to be dying in order to enjoy that fact that I wasn't dying before.

  Adam and Eve were happy and satisfied while they lived in Eden and they had no concept of evil. You are linking together things that don't belong. You do not need a basis for comparison or knowlege of some opposite things' existance just to be happy with what you got.
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  Sargon

  If Adam and Eve were so happy, why did they feel they needed something else? If they were truly happy they would not have been vulnerable to Satan's temptations.
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  crinklestein

  So by that rationale nobody will ever be happy if they have the desire to do something else? No. People will always feel the need to do other things. That's human nature: To want and need variety and to do other things. Does that variety need to include bad things just for them to be happy? No.

  Adam and Eve were happy. They just saw something else that they could do. They knew it was wrong to do it but they did it anyway. That doesnt mean they weren'y happy before they did it. They just did something else.
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  kat_newmas

  Agrees with most of it.... except the intelligence and conceince part.... as we are only now discovering... there are creatures of intelligence and conceince right here on earth... That perhaps surpass man. The fact that they communicate differently, only says that we haven't mastered their language.

  For example... A dolphin knows that by shaking his head up and down to you... that he is saying "yes". But do you know how to indicate to HIM that you .... feel sad? We are only just now learning to speak their language. To know that they exist as we do. They have families and friends. A structure of communication, and language.

  The fact that man became the dominant force on earth.... (in his mind anyway) only re-tells the story of the dinosaur. We are big enough (in numbers) to walk over pretty much anything. And we do.... presuming that we are the final stage of existence... that man... is the greatest of all creation.... how conceited is that?

  Anyway... the dinosaurs got turned into big pop-cycles. To make way for new life..... what makes you think.... we... are at the top of any food chains... it isnt over yet.

  but hey... maybe my two cents aren't worth a penny.