School project on evolution

by Leonie1234 17 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Leonie1234

  Hey!

  First of all I want to mention that I'm not a member of the jehovahs witnesses. However I'm open and non-judgemental towards any kind of religion.

  My chemistry teacher is part of your community and gave us some homework on the topic of evolution. We have to discuss pros / cons of the evolutiontheory and then conclude whether it is actually as plausible as science claims it is.

  However, I grew up with the believe that humans emerged from apes and that every life form is a result of mutation and adaptation. Therefore I'm having a hard time coming up with proof to debunk this theory, which is the reason why I decided to try and get some first hand information here.

  I'd be really grateful if any of you could help me out with this!

  Thank you in advance,

  Leonie
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  LoveUniHateExams

  Hi Leonie, welcome to the forum.

  We're not actually Jehovah's Witnesses here.

  This site is a place for ex-Witnesses, people who were born into the cult and thus were forced to live by the cult's rules, and there are also a few interested others.

  Evolution is generally accepted here.

  Is your chemistry teacher a believing JW? Is he trying to argue against evolution and for a literal reading of the Bible book of Genesis?

  (BTW, teachers specialising in chemistry tend not to be experts in evolution/biology.)
  
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  Anony Mous

  There are plenty of reasons why evolution is the primary theory of how things got there. You can see evolution in action if you have a petri dish and some solution that kills bacteria on one end and a solution that feeds them on the other - over time, generations of new bacteria will develop resistances to the deadly solution and sometimes even start evolving to use it as food.

  Look up Sam Harris, Richard Dawking, Stephen Gould. Learn the history of evolution from Lamarck to Darwin. You can't just develop a conclusion if you don't know what the theory is in the first place.

  You will have a hard time debunking the theory, because this scientific theory has been proven to be the most likely and correct explanation of a natural fact through experimentation and observation. It's very similar to an axiom in mathematics, it's just accepted to be true and to change that you'll need a significant amount of evidence to the contrary.

  I sometimes put it as such: If you have evidence that the theory of evolution by natural selection is wrong, please write a paper to the contrary and pick up your Nobel price on the way - that's how impactful evidence that can be scientifically replicated would be.
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  Giordano

  "First of all I want to mention that I'm not a member of the jehovahs witnesses. However I'm open and non-judgmental towards any kind of religion."

  That's nice but it's a flawed reaction. Your trying to be fair but you are wrong....evil is evil.

  Where there is no good to be found you are looking at evil.

  What would you say about the Jonestown massacre? Where over 900 religious Americans drank or were compelled to drink at gun point.... fruit juice laced with poison.

  Google photographs of Jonestown to see how evil and corrupt a religion can be. Over 300 hundred innocent children died that night wrapped in the arms of their parents. Who thought or were compelled to carry out the wishes for a deranged religious nut case.

  Every year well over a 1,000 JW's die for refusing a life saving blood transfusion.

  Understand this....please....the evil mankind has done is usually abetted by religion or politics

  Do you understand how evil the Catholic Church was when they set out to torture and kill anyone who was not a believing Catholic during the inquisition? If they didn't submit to the ignorance of this church they died...... often burned at the stake.

  If a JW doesn't submit to it's Governing Body they die as shunned ex members. Losing family and standing in their JW community.

  Because the bible says not to eat blood in the old testament. This from a god that just drowned every man women and child including the unborn. God turns out to be an abortionist.

  Get past evolution taught by a JW teacher and ask him to explain why 1,000s of JW followers died needlessly for want of a blood transfusion every year. If he says we can't 'eat blood...he's a sham.

  Your job at your age is to reject the bullshit of a religiously dominated teacher and look for the truth. If he's a believing JW don't trust him and don't be alone with him. The JW's have a huge pedophile problem because they support the 'Two Witness Rule" before their congregation can act.

  Thank you for bringing your question to us. We have a thousand years of experience plus on this forum when it comes to knowing this religion.

  Sorry to go dark on you but it is often a life or death situation. My wife and I lost two close JW's family members who refused a blood transfusion. We are not alone dealing with this.
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  StephaneLaliberte

  Most of the arguments in favor of creation will often use a strawman approach: That is, to attack a position that someone does not really hold. For instance, they will say that the theory of evolution is "just a theory", making it sound as if it stands on shaky grounds. Or that evolution is a random series of fortuitous, almost miraculous changes. Or that there is no missing link. All these are easily debunked as these arguments are based on dis-information.

  You are welcome to search religious teachings. Science is open to you searching facts and has a lot of respect for people who study religions and history. On the other hand, many religious groups, such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses will often dissuade their members to even consider portions of what science teaches calling them out as devil propaganda.

  Science believes in the truth being challenged. If it is indeed the truth, it will withstand challenges.
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  cofty

  Hi Leonie, welcome.

  It really is dishonest of your teacher to present evolution as if it was a matter for serious debate. It is a fact as certain as anything that has been discovered by the scientific method. There is great debate within the science community regarding some of the details - punctuated equilibrium v gradualism; how many branches are there at the root of the taxonomic tree - but the fact that every living thing including the more than 99% of extinct species all evolved from a common ancestor by a process of unguided evolution over millions of years is an indisputable fact.

  If I were you I would make that abundantly clear in my answer.

  The only people who reject the fact of evolution are motivated by religious ideology. Most religious people have no problem with it but Muslims, evangelical christians and JWs are exceptions.

  As a JW your teacher will have got his information from two or three absolutely dreadful and intellectually dishonest books published by the Watchtower Society. There are a number of sources on the internet that take these books apart line by line.

  Outside the JW religion opposition to evolution is led mostly by the Discovery Institute and their spokesmen such as Michael Behe, Stephen Myer and Wm Dembsky. They promote a form of creationism called Intelligent design which uses objections such as 'irreducible complexity' and 'specified complexity'. This approach, that was invented purely to get around the law that forbade creationism being taught in American schools was exposed in a legal trial Kitzmiller v Dover School Board. You will find info on YouTube and coverage here at the ncse website.

  If I can offer any more help let me know. I would personally use your assignment to attack all forms of creationism for the superstitious ideology that it is, but I don't have to worry about grades.

  Here is a series of threads you might find helpful. Evolution is a Fact Parts 1 - 40...
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  Leonie1234

  Hey,

  I hope everyone that commented sees this, because I can't seem to find a possibility to comment on a comment.

  I wanted to thank you all so much. I'm sorry, I didn't know this was a forum for ex JW and that's why I tried to come across as nice as possible in order to get the information I needed. In reality, I absolutely disageee with everything the JW stand for. From blood transfusions to the way they construct their community, I tend to let them know how I feel about their belief system whenever one of them (including my teacher) comes up to me, trying to convince me of their way of living.

  Luckily I already share your views and I wanted to thank you so much for your support and the great way you explained your points. I'm sure there are many students out there who don't really know anything about the JW or the evolution theory and they would be lucky to come across such a community like yours.

  I don't know if my reaction is overexaggerated but you all kind of restored my faith in humanity, simply because I expected the comments to be filled with biblical nonesense haha

  Leonie
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  Sea Breeze

  I grew up with the believe that humans emerged from apes and that every life form is a result of mutation and adaptation.

  Hi Leonie,

  Anyone born in the last 80 years probably grew up with the view that all life on earth is the result of a common ancestor since that is what we were all taught.

  
  

  With the invention of the internet, dissenters can more easily allow their voices to be heard. Thousands of Scientists are skeptical of Darwinian claims that all life on earth came from a single ancestor. Here are just a few:

  Paul Ashby Ph.D. Chemistry - Harvard University

  Dean Kenyon Ph.D. Emeritus Professor of Biology - San Francisco State University

  Raymond Bohlin Ph.D. Molucular and Cell Biology - University of Texas Dallas

  Curtis M. Beechan Ph.D. Organic Chemistry - Stanford University

  Ola Hossjer Ph.D Professor of Mathematical Statistics - Stockholm University

  William J. Arion Ph.D. Emeritus Professor of Biochemistry - Cornell University

  Melody Davis Ph.D. Chemistry - Princeton University

  James Harman Ph.D. Associate Chair Dept. of Biochemistry - Texas Tech University

  Janice Arion Ph.D Animal Sciences - Cornell University

  Malcolm W. MacArthur Ph.D. Molecular Biophysics - University of London

  Lane Lester Ph.D. Genetics - Purdue University

  Jorn Dyerberg Professor Emeritus, Faculty of Life Sciences - Copenhagen University

  Lisanne D'Andrea-Winslow Ph.D. Cell Biology & Biochemistry - Rutgers University

  Gerald Schroeder Ph.D. Earth Sciences & Nuclear Physics - MIT

  Wesley M. Taylor Former Chairman of the Division of Primate Medicine & Surger - Harvard Medical School

  Marco Fasoli Ph.D in biochemistry - University of Cambridge (UK)

  Patricia Wolfe Ph.D. Molecular Biology - Cornell University

  A more realistic model looks something like this:

  
  
  

  Since this latter model which allows for speciation within kinds aligns with a biblical model, there is much academic bias against it because it goes against a naturalist worldview. It is the naturalist/materialist worldview that must be protected at all costs in the minds of many scientists. This bias is summed up well by Evolutionary Biologist, Richard Lewontin when he stated rather frankly:

  "Our willingness to accept scientific claims that are against common sense is the key to an understanding of the real struggle between science and the supernatural. We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism.

  It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated.

  Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door. "
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  2+2=5

  @Leonie

  Yes this place can be a wonderful community, almost life saving for some who have needed it.

  I was raised a JW and would scoff at evolution. It’s embarrassing, I feel stupid for that but am very grateful I started thinking for myself at almost age 30.

  There have been so many supporters of creation and biblical nonsense come and go on this site, Cofty is giant in this place and his contributions to the ex-JW community are to be commended, he’s extremely helpful to many.

  Stay safe everyone, let’s enjoy ourselves
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  Anony Mous

  @Sea Breeze: You're utterly misrepresenting people. First of all, people that are skeptical of Darwinism, either don't understand it, have some religious reason that trumps both truth and evidence, or in case of some scientists, they have a slightly modified view of the current mainstream interpretations and are often misquoted as such.

  The quote from Dr. Lewontin is both out of context and misinterpreted, he is basically arguing that you cannot accept supernatural explanations, how easy and obvious they may look because they do not match with reality. Materialism in science means basically "observable and subject to the scientific method", so by definition any explanation that is not materialistic cannot be accepted by anyone seeking truth and answers.

  It is fine to have an alternative viewpoint, but you have to be able to substantiate it and prove it in a materialistic way. Just handwaving at it and declaring something the truth is not how people do science.