Have We Really Been Lied To?

by sandy 15 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • sandy
    sandy
    We were told that the brothers in Mexico had been oppressed by the government, so that they could not sing or pray at meetings. We were not told that the Society had registered as a "cultural" organization because religious organizations were not allowed to own property in Mexico. As a "cultural" organization, the brothers were obliged to downplay the religious aspect. The restrictions upon their actions derived primarily from a Society decision rather than government action

    I found this statement on line in a DA Letter somebody wrote to the Society and I was wondering if any of you have any comments. How can I verify these statements? The letter was on a website called something like ... 'Beyond Jehovah's Witnesses'.. I should have pated the link.sorry I'll find it later and post it.

  • Valis
    Valis

    Hi sandy, welcome to the board. You might want to read Crisis of Conscience by former Governing Body member and Senior Writing Dept writer (Author of Aid Book), Disfellowshipped, ...long huh? ...Ray Franz. You can find a direct link to his website here. He explains many of the details surrounding the Mexico/Malawi issue from a first hand perspective...

    http://www.commentarypress.com/booklist-eng.html

    Sincerely,

    District Overbeer

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    I think the information is in Crisis Of Conscience available at

    http://www.freeminds.org/sales/books.htm#crisis

    Someone may be able to confirm this. Maybe there are some Mexican Witnesses who will comment to the thread.

  • waiting
    waiting

    Hey Sandy,

    I've read about this experience in Crisis of Conscience. If it were a lie, don't you think that the WTBTS would have sued Ray Franz for falsifying documents (there are pictures of actual documents in his book) since the WTBTS has tried to sue anyone who would try and tarnish their right to freedom of worship?

    I do remember writing letters to the Malawi government politely requesting that they stop beating, raping & killing Jehovah's Witnesses because the witnesses wouldn't buy a $.25 political card. It was deemed necessary to remain "completely neutral" with their lives.

    Do you remember when (around 92-94) the Watchtower has articles about our Mexican brothers giving such open praise and able to bring their Bibles & songbooks to their meeting place........even openly calling them Kingdom Halls NOW? Why couldn't they do this openly before? We were led to believe that JW's were being persecuted by the Mexican government.

    But noooooooooooo, Jehovah's Witnesses couldn't call their meeting place a Kingdom Hall & sing songs to God there because then they'd have to pay taxes on it. So it was called a social building.....and the WTBTS didn't have to pay taxes. Then the Mexican government changed their laws.......and Voila!......the WTBTS now had Mexican Kingdom Halls!

    The Mexican government wasn't persecuting anyone. They just wanted the WTBTS to pay taxes....just like other religions.

    Nice to meet you - hope you stick around. Nice place.

    waiting

  • waiting
    waiting

    lol.........I wrote about the above to show that the WTBTS does many things that aren't obvious.....or well known. We were just given bits & pieces to suit their purpose.

    To keep followers.

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex
    Have we really been lied to?

    Oh yeah. What's even worse is those who have perpetuated the lie, knew it was a lie, knew the impact it would have on people and did it anyway. There has to be a special place in hell for someone like that.

  • wannaexit
    wannaexit

    My husband and I were in Mexico years ago. We looked high and low for a kingdom hall. When we found it , we thought it odd that it did not have a "Kingdom hall of JW" sign in front. I naively thought it was because of their poor conditions.

    When I read Ray Franz's books, that incident came to mind and the pieces of what we saw all came together.

    It took me a long time to digest the fact that the Watchtower lies and misleads to suit their needs. Now I don't put anything past them.

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    Amazing... they persecuted their own members so they could save a buck.

    Really shows you where their priorities are.

  • Swan
    Swan

    Dear Sandy,

    Waiting wrote:

    I do remember writing letters to the Malawi government politely requesting that they stop beating, raping & killing Jehovah's Witnesses because the witnesses wouldn't buy a $.25 political card. It was deemed necessary to remain "completely neutral" with their lives.

    I remember this. I was a young person when the reports of these atrocities came out. The Malawi JWs underwent severe persecution to preserve their neutrality. In Ray Franz' Crisis of Conscience he tells how the Malawi card was just a national ID card, somewhat similar in nature to the Social Security Card that is in the United States. Also, at the same time that the JWs in Malawi were being persecuted for their neutrality, the brothers in Mexico were paying a bribe to government officials to obtain false documents that showed they had reported for their mandatory military training and had completed it. This was also well documented in Crisis of Conscience.

    So yes, it definitely looks like there was a double standard, and after examining the evidence, I believe I was lied to.

    Tammy

  • Gamaliel
    Gamaliel

    Sandy,

    One of the worst parts of this mess was that the brothers most stricken by a guilty conscience over this were the brothers in leadership positions in Mexico -- even the Branch Overseer of Mexico. He even gave a talk for all Bethelites when I was there on how the work was progressing in Mexico under the guise of social and educational programs. He didn't say anything about the contradiction during the talk, but he definitely brought up the comparison again to Malawi when doublechecking the GBs current stand on the issue. Ray Franz exposure of this travesty drove the GB to immediately redouble their efforts to get the JWs legalized as a real religion, ASAP.

    In fact, I know of a brother who was at Bethel 25 years ago, (one of few with a college degree back then) who has remained a JW all these years, and has also studied sociology. He was in a Mexican border congregation until just a few months ago. As recently as last year, he asked JRBrown about the possibility of working on a book that discussed the great work JWs have done in the country with respect to increased literacy. He got no response on that issue, but suddenly was just disfellowshipped in the last two months for insubordination to the elders. That was the real charge against him, although on paper it was "causing divisions" or something like that. The charges were so ludicrous and trumped up that he is appealing. I can't say for sure that JRBrown is afraid of dredging up this old history, and I don't think this brother would have a clue about that Mexico-Malawi comparison as a possible motive.

    Gamaliel

    P.S. Sandy, I believe I have given enough information so that any WTS representatives could easily identify the brother I speak of, so I feel obligated to add the following here in the same post. I hope you don't mind. You may safely ignore the following:

    To JR, if you're "listening:" At the risk of sounding haughty, as an outsider, I wanted to defend the work and intentions of this brother. From what I have known of this brother in the past, and after speaking with a relative of his, I would think the Service Department would prefer to consider granting his requested appeal and see what might be possible to do, so that no further obstacles or burdens be added that would keep this brother from continuing his good standing in the congregation. His desire to come back, his quiet nature, and the permission he requested of you speak to his loyalty. Also, the type of questioning and authoritarian attitude he evidently received from the local elders has the potential of becoming no small scandal in itself. If he later wishes to leave the Organization based on this type of treatment, many would think of it as due to a "stumbling block" brought on by the circumstances and personality of his particular, current Judicial Committee. Many would no doubt think it unjust to permit the stigma and/or shunning that a disfellowshipping can carry with it. I believe this to be the feeling of several who are currently aware of this case in his own and nearby congregations.

    Thanks for your serious consideration of his request.

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