"We are also found false witnesses of God"

Noumenon

1 Corinthians 15: 15 says "Morever, we are also found false witnesses of God, because we have borne witness against God that he raised up the Christ, but whom he did not raise up if the dead are really not to be raised up."

JW's are guilty of being false witnesses to God in a similar manner as Paul states above, because of their insistence that Jesus was enthroned as King in heaven in 1914. They need to ditch this unconvincing teaching propped up by it's dodgy chronology. It's high time to realise that there was no invisible 'parousia' that started in that year, and that Christ's parousia is still a future event, to commence when he sits on his white horse and goes into battle at Armageddon.

Francois

Personally I don't think there's going to be any Armageddon; no white horse; no mass murder; nothing.

You know how a baby is born, is raised, grows, turns into an adult? And when you go and look for the baby, it's not there any longer.

I think the same will happen to even evil people, they grow, loose their ignorance, loose their separation from God, and when you go looking for the evil one, he's not there any longer. He hasn't been destroyed, however, as the JWs like to proclaim in support of their bloody little cult, the evil one has merely grown out of his evil and he is no longer in his place. Good god, I wish the JWs would hurry and grow out it it.

$0.02

francois

Faraon

Francois,

You'd better be careful with your words. Remember what happened to Sodom & other towns when they refused to copulate with Lot's daughters. See, Lot did it with them and survived!

The nephilin refused a WT study and drowned like rats, together with most animal and plant life.

Noumenon

So Francois, if you no longer believe in Armageddon or Jesus returning on a 'white horse' as Revelation plainly states, then it seems you really no longer believe in the bible?

So what do you believe in Francois? Where does that leave you?

Are you really an ex-JW? Or a lurking quasi atheist?

Satanus

Neumenon

What's w all this threat for not believing? Why not just accept what is and go from there? If they really exist, cannot god, jesus or the white horse appear to one and all? Wait a minute! Actually, i believe in the white horse part, because i saw on, actually a few Aren't you happy? Now i'm a believer(well one third).

SS

Francois

Neumenon, ceasing to believe in the things I once believed in when I thought as a child does not make an atheist of me. And I do not believe that the book of Revelation "plainly" states anything at all.

The bible plainly states that the value of Pi is 3.0. The gospels do not agree in their presentation of facts; prove it to yourself.

I do not identify myself as a christian since christianity, the religion about Jesus, is perhaps the most bloody phenomena the world has ever known as it goes about representing the Prince of Peace. And from it has evolved business without ethics and religion without morals. Also from it springs people like yourself who claim to be christian but seem never to have heard of Mt. 7:1. I reject the idea that you constitute any sort of judge over me, or anyone else; your very questions are impertinent.

And in any event, I do not engage in bibliolatry.

francois

edp81

Francois,

Your view is so full of holes that it doesn't much effort at all to see clear through it.

One of the basic rules of Bible interpretation are that the Bible must be interpreted as literal if the literal interpretation makes logical sense. Much of Revelation CAN be taken as literal.

You say that the gospels do not agree in there presentation of the facts. I challenge you to bring forth any passage where any of the gospels contradicts another on the BASIC facts. You will find that the only place that the facts are different is on SECONDARY facts. It's kinda like when four people see an accident occur. Most likely, they will have the basic facts right, but will differ on the secondary facts.

"Bloody phenomena, business without ethics, religion without morals". All these are a perversion of Christianity. None of these are sanctioned by Christ. In fact, you will find principles for just the opposite in the Bible.

You talk about Christians who don't seem to have ever read Matt. 7:1, yet you yourself seem to have totally forgotten about the verse that is the balance of Matt. 7:1. This verse is Matt. 7:20. It says, "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

It is quite obvious by your comments that you do not adhere to bibliolatry. How sad!

edp81

kat_newmas

I have said this before.... You can make the bible say anything.... CONTEXT. It has been used since it's birth to justify everything from murder, to abortion, to war, to torture. It has been used to condemn everything from murder, to abortion, to war, to torture.

Some take Revelations literally, but Genesis figuratively... and so on.

It is my personal belief that the bible does contain some great wisdom, if you look hard enough. It is also my belief that the bible was written by the hand of man, and anytime man is involved you can bet he is going to have his own agenda.

Whether you call it The New World Translation or The King James Version, you cannot deny that "translation" and "version" both indicate, that someone re-wrote the thing after its original conception.

** Just a thought and if you have an answer, I am glad to hear it. I always wondered why a Letter from Paul, or a Letter to Timothy, has now become "the word of God". Go out and buy yourself a RED LETTER edition of the bible, and cut out all the things in red and paste them in a scrapbook.... there.... divine wisdom.... out of the mouth of the Nazarene, who claims to be the son of God.... the rest of it, is poetry and letters that have somehow come to be "God's Law". I am not denying that there isnt wisdom in some of those things, or that the poetry isnt "inspirational".... but you have a bunch of Grown folks out there killing each other over it. (of course man has killed each other in the name of God since time began)

edp81

You must also remember 2 Tim. 3:16. "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God . . . ." Inspiration of God literally means "God-breathed". God used human writers to write a divine book, the Bible. God inspired these humans to write this book.

What significance does this have?

You may think that this is heretical at first, but think about it for a while. If all of the Bible is written by inspiration of God, then Jesus words do not have any more wisdom / power / significance than the Apostle Paul's words.

kat_newmas

True... but I was assuming of course in my statement that you already accept the bible as the word of god.

I dont know where this belief would leave documents like the Koran (spelling?) or all the other ancient and wise writings throughout the ages. Christianity is but one of many beliefs. It is also one of the few that teach that It alone is the path to god.

*** mind you though.... I am not here to change your mind or beliefs. I just make a bunch of opinionated statements that may or may not, have legitimate grounds to stand on. But hey, cant help that I was raised a JW.... it is the "nature of the beast" I suppose.

I myself semi-follow the druidic structure of belief. I do not believe that one truth can be made to fit all. Each man must find his own path to God. It is the only conflict I have with Christianity in General... they would have their "truth" be stretched to fit everyone. They teach that they alone have the path to the Dweller of the Heavens, and that all others are condemned.

"We are also found false witnesses of God"

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