If you don't want canned please do what JT and LB said. They are right on..you have to lie. You need not feel bad about it since they have lied to you for years.
JMO
Leslie
upcoming elder visit, need help
by greven 39 Replies latest jw friends
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ThiChi
Short answer:
Play the sheep. Tell them that you need help. State to them that you are weak and do do not feel worthy to even be seen with your fellow JWs. Give a positive agreement to receive their help, only then will they be powerless to do anything to you. Thank them for coming. This is the only way to avoid DA or Dfing. When it comes to going to meetings or anything else, just don’t go or do it. You will just be thought of as weak.
Take it from an ex Elder, this is the kind of action that make the hardest Elder melt, or at least know that you are untouchable....
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jws
Lying is a difficult call to make. If you lie to save your family, is it OK? You are trying to stay a JW so that you can positively influence your family and help them escape. If you are DA/DF you will constantly be the enemy to your family and they will not listen to what you have to say.
If you live as a JW, you are living a lie already. Lying to the elders to help keep the disguise going is all part of that same lie. In this case, I'd say the lie is all for the greater good. It is not easy to have JW family members who you want to help out, but they will not listen.
So be humble, play along. Don't raise flags and look like you're seeking help. It may even require some more visits to the Kingdom Hall. The better you do play along, the more credibility you may also have with your family. Simply avoiding DF/DA is not alone going to make your family hear what you have to say. A "weak" JW is also considered suspect.
And don't avoid them. Accept them and make it sound like you're happy about it. That will score you points. Putting it off can make them doubt your sincerity and it could piss them off. From what I've heard, often times there is no way to avoid these things without getting DA/DF anyway. So might as well get it over with as quickly as possible.
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Deleted
That wise sage Mommie Dark from the ol' support4xjws site told me when I was gonna send in a DA letter was: Why live by their rules? Don't do anything. I didn't and I am still not DF'd or DA'd. It seems like you might be a bit far down the road to ignore them, but don't lie to them. If you can be vague and evasive by using a version of Theocratic Warfare Strategy, that might be ok.
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crinklestein
That's what I say! If you don't agree with them why do you feel the need to leave their organization by their rules. It's liberating sticking up for yourself as an individual! When I left I never said one word to those idiots. I just stopped going. Sure they came by every now and then to "encourage" me. But I just told them I didn't need any encouragement. And shortly thereafter I moved away! No word to them. I don't need to explain jack to them. And I certainly don't need them to file out their little forms and label me with their little titles just to satisfy the god of paperwork and statistics that they worship.
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crinklestein
That's what I say! If you don't agree with them why do you feel the need to leave their organization by their rules. It's liberating sticking up for yourself as an individual! When I left I never said one word to those idiots. I just stopped going. Sure they came by every now and then to "encourage" me. But I just told them I didn't need any encouragement. And shortly thereafter I moved away! No word to them. I don't need to explain jack to them. And I certainly don't need them to file out their little forms and label me with their little titles just to satisfy the god of paperwork and statistics that they worship.
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rocketman
I agree with the posters who said that you cannot win an argument vs. the elders, because in their own eyes, they and the WTS are always right.
Amazing, isn't it? - this whole thing is like the Inquistion. You can't be honest for fear of reprisal. Friggn' unreal and yet so true.
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Maverick
I must say we have a wide range of thoughts on this one. I stand by my comment; avoid the meeting. You only get one shot and the Elders will come out of left field on you. They may have some "inside" information you are not aware of and sandbag you. Tactically it is unsound to engage them. I do not ever advocate lying, always take the high road. Long after this whole situation is passed your deciet would be remembered. Duck and dodge, slip and slide and if you have to ...hide! Pick your time and your terms. Maverick
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greven
I am truly overwhelmed by the responses I got! So much good advise, I really don't know where to start, but here it goes:
max: Give them uncertainty and humility, but avoid any definite positions on anything
Exactly what I wanted to do! I want to appear meek and willing.
shakita: As much as I would like to confront them with the many questions that I have, to remain silent is the best option for the present time.
I do not confront them with my questions anymore, since they refused to answer them before.
You said that you assume that the JW's are still the right religion. I suggest that you do more research.
You misunderstood me . As soon as I started to do research, I found out they weren't the right religion. Since that time I do not consider myself a JW. Now, I could have submitted my DA letter right away and I would be free, but would make it very difficult to convince my parents and other relatives of the same. A better attempt would be to continue in my research getting more and more material and gradualy introducing evidence to my relatives. Since my progress in this is very promising (my parents already agree on several opinion against the society) I wouldn't want to risk it by getting DA'ed. In the end I might not get them out but at least they will understand me better and not shun me. So basically I try to be a wolf in sheeps cloth so to speak. Stealth will aid my goal.
Mulan: Refusing to meet raises a "red flag". Try to avoid it, but don't refuse.
This is very helpful! thanx Mulan!
JT: SHUN SHUN SHUN, and the cut of of family and friends takes place, they have not built up any new cliente OF friends and now they are cutoff feeling left completely in the dark
Looking back at what I know now, I feel sorry for my parents and relatives and want them to see it too. I know I make a chance, and I am willing to suffer a bit to achieve it. Just Nod and Smile!LB: Then after they leave go puke your guts out.
Yep! That will most likely be my final response. LOL
Lovedubs:You were taught elusiveness from the MASTERS kiddo...answer with "I will reserve my answer to that until all of my questions are answered thoroughly. I want my yes to mean yes you know."
Whatever you do RECORD THE MEETING.
This could be very interesting indeed! thanx!
Crinklestein: Some questions I would suggest is, 'Is the purpose of your visit to draw a line in the sand where you would say, 'on this side you're with us and on that side you are against us?'"
"Are you here because I have been asking questions about my faith?" If they say yes then remind them of the scripture about how, after an assembly all of those in attendance went to the scrolls to see if these things they were told were true.
I have enough material to prove that asking questions and doing research is ok. I'll keep it handy when the time comes. Good Tip!
Gamaliel: If you can avoid meeting without refusing that's the most important step. If you can delay by giving them nearly impossible meeting times, that's good up to a point. If you finally have to meet with them, your attitude is more important than what you say, but you have to be able to say most of what they want and expect to hear.
Thanx for all the help so far! So, here is what I will do:
I will try to avoid meeting with them, without telling them off. I it really comes down to a meeting I will just nod and smile, thank them for helping me, being just a sheep with doubt and tell them what they want to hear. I will record the meeting, for reasons stated and for future amusement. i will try to send up Red flags.
I feel ready! Let the games begin!
My God! What a wonderfull thing, this internet! Making friends and getting help from all over the world in the blink of an eye!
(((((Big hugs))))) to you all!
Greven
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jws
Since that time I do not consider myself a JW. Now, I could have submitted my DA letter right away and I would be free, but would make it very difficult to convince my parents and other relatives of the same. A better attempt would be to continue in my research getting more and more material and gradualy introducing evidence to my relatives. Since my progress in this is very promising (my parents already agree on several opinion against the society) I wouldn't want to risk it by getting DA'ed. In the end I might not get them out but at least they will understand me better and not shun me. So basically I try to be a wolf in sheeps cloth so to speak. Stealth will aid my goal.
I don't know how deeply engrained into this your relatives are. But beware. I've heard of people agreeing just to get you to incriminate yourself even more. Once your guilt is unquestionable, they'll go running to the elders with what they know.
It's entirely possible that the elders are visiting as a result of something your relatives told them you had been saying. Though if it's only 2 elders, it's not a judicial committee yet. But they may likely have info that they consider credible because it comes from a loyal dub. And if you (the one who's been questioning) tell a different story, they will believe you are lying to them. Then it could turn into a judicial committee.
Good luck on getting your family out. It's hard to do from the outside.