Jehovah’s Witnesses or Jesus Witnesses?

by Vanderhoven7 10 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Keith writes

    You have just touched on a flawed doctrinal belief that is foundational to false religion.

    First, it is important to understand what false religion means when they call themselves Jehovah’s Witnesses. By this, they declare themselves to be “witnesses of the Father” despite the fact that Jehovah is NOT the name of God at all, but a concoction of human origin from the Dark Ages.

    Here is the flaw:

    Is it even possible for ANYONE to be a witness of the Father?

    The answer to that from the Bible is No!

    No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. (John‬ 1‬:18‬ NKJV‬‬)

    This Scripture says that the Father no one has seen, except the Son. So only Jesus can be a witness to the Father!

    And if no one has seen the Father, how can anyone testify about the Father???

    Jesus rebuked the religious leaders of His day who considered themselves a type of “witnesses of the Father” here:

    And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. (John‬ 5‬:37‬-38‬ NKJV‬‬)

    Did you see that? The Jews considered themselves to be “witnesses of the Father” when in reality they have neither seen Him nor heard Him.

    But Jesus said that the Father’s word doesn’t dwell in them because they don’t believe in Jesus, whom the Father testified about.

    Thus, it is the will of the Father that all should look to the Son, making them, therefore, witnesses of Jesus:

    But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth. (Acts‬ 1‬:8‬ NKJV‬‬)

    These are the words of Jesus to His disciples just before He was to ascend into Heaven after His resurrection. Clearly He told His followers that they would be “witnesses of Jesus” NOT “witnesses of the Father.”

    The same statement is repeated at the conversion of Saul of Tarsus, who became Paul the Apostle:

    But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.” (Acts‬ 9‬:15‬-16‬ NKJV‬‬)

    The One speaking here is Jesus, and He clearly states that Paul is to bear His Name (not the name of the Father) before kings and Gentiles. Therefore, Paul is also a “Jesus Witness!”

    The Apostle Peter also said this:

    For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain. (2 Peter‬ 1‬:16‬-18‬ NKJV‬‬)

    Peter is a special case in that he not only witnessed the Transfiguration of Jesus on the mountain, but He also heard the Father’s voice declaring Jesus to be His Son.

    And despite hearing the Father’s voice, Peter is testifying about Christ, NOT the Father!

    Why?

    Because the Father gave Jesus honor and glory (2 Peter 1:17) The Apostle John, who was there with Peter, echoes the same message:

    And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. (1 John‬ 4‬:14‬ NKJV‬‬)

    John is referring to the experience in the Mount of Transfiguration where the Bible records what Jesus was speaking about with Moses and Elijah on that mountain:

    And behold, two men talked with Him, who were Moses and Elijah, who appeared in glory and spoke of His decease which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem. (Luke‬ 9‬:30‬-31‬ NKJV‬‬)

    Thus the prophecy in the Old Testament is referring to being witnesses of Jesus:

    You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me.” (Isaiah‬ 43‬:10‬ NKJV‬‬)

    The Apostle Paul, in his testimony about his conversion said this:

    Then a certain Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good testimony with all the Jews who dwelt there, came to me; and he stood and said to me, ‘Brother Saul, receive your sight.’ And at that same hour I looked up at him. Then he said, ‘The God of our fathers has chosen you that you should know His will, and see the Just One, and hear the voice of His mouth. For you will be His witness to all men of what you have seen and heard. (Acts‬ 22‬:12‬-14‬ NKJV‬‬)

    Indeed, Paul both saw and heard Jesus, which qualifies him as a “witness” for Jesus to bear His Name before kings and Gentiles.

    Conclusion:

    It is IMPOSSIBLE to be a “witness of the Father” because no one has seen the Father, but the Son was seen by Abraham, Moses, the elders of Israel, the disciples, and many more!

    Every genuine Christian is a “Jesus Witness” and certainly NOT a “Jehovah’s Witness.”

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    The New Testament confirms:

    Christians were to be witnesses of Christ, not Jehovah:

    (Matthew 10:18) ....before governors and kings for my sake, for a witness....

    (Mark 13:9) ...be put on the stand......for my sake, for a witness to them.

    (Luke 24:48) You are to be witnesses of these things.

    (John 1:15) (John bore witness about him, (Jesus)

    (John 5:37) And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me.

    (John 8:18) ...bears witness about myself, and the Father..bears witness about me.”

    (John 15:26, 27) ....bear witness about me; and you, in turn, are to bear witness....

    (Acts 1:8) ..witnesses of me in Jerusalem,.....the most distant part of the earth.”

    (Acts 9:15, 16) But the Lord said to him: “Go! because this man is a chosen vessel to me to bear my name to the nations as well as to kings and the sons of Israel. For I will show him plainly how many things he must suffer for my name.”

    (Acts 10:39) And we are witnesses of all the things he did.......

    (Acts 10:43) To him (Jesus) all the prophets bear witness....

    (Acts 13:31) .......These are now his witnesses to the people.

    (Acts 22:15) because you are to be a witness for him (Jesus) to all men......

    (Acts 22:20) and when the blood of Stephen your witness...

    (Acts 23:11) ....witness about me in Jerusalem,.....also bear witness in Rome.”

    (Acts 26:16) .....a witness .....................respecting me.

    (1 Corinthians 1:6) ...the witness about the Christ has been made firm among you,

    (1 Timothy 2:6, 7) ...this is what is to be witnessed to in its own due time.

    (2 Timothy 1:8) ....the witness about our Lord.......

    (1 John 5:9) ....this is the witness God gives, the witness.....about his Son.

    (Revelation 1:9) ......bearing witness concerning Jesus.

    (Revelation 12:17) ....have the work of bearing witness concerning Jesus.

    (Revelation 17:6) ......and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus.

    (Revelation 19:10) ....witnessing concerning Jesus...the witness concerning Jesus...

    (Revelation 20:4) ...for the witness they gave about Jesus......

  • nicolaou
    nicolaou
    Vanderhoven: Is it even possible for ANYONE to be a witness of the Father?The answer to that from the Bible is No!

    Jesus said to Philip "He who has seen me has seen the Father"

  • NotFormer
    NotFormer

    "By this, they declare themselves to be “witnesses of the Father” despite the fact that Jehovah is NOT the name of God at all, but a concoction of human origin from the Dark Ages."

    I always say that they worship a scribal error by a 12th century Catholic monk. 🙄 Probably wrong in part, but arguably closer in accuracy than anything the WT says.

  • Raimundo
    Raimundo

    Hi, I understand what you're saying about being witnesses of Jesus

    but the argument that one cannot be a witness of the Father because no one saw him is a flawed argument

    the one who says that is not me, it is Jehovah

    10 “You are my witnesses, declares Jehovah,

    “Yes, my servant whom I have chosen,r

    So that you may know and have faith in me*

    And understand that I am the same One.s

    Before me no God was formed,

    And after me there has been none.t

    Jehovah himself says that his witnesses are people who did not see him

  • Duran
    Duran
    Is it even possible for ANYONE to be a witness of the Father?
    The answer to that from the Bible is No!
    Christians were to be witnesses of Christ, not Jehovah:

    Going by the criteria of not being able to a witness of Jehovah because of not have ever seeing him, then no one other than those that lived during the time of Jesus and that saw him could be his witnesses either.

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Granted, Keith's argument is flawed.

    It seems to me that “You are my witnesses, declares Jehovah, applied to those under the Old Covenant. Noteworthy is the fact that this designation was not repeated to the anointed or to Gentiles under the New Covenant. However, Christians are called repeatedly to witness to Jesus Christ in the Greek scriptures.

  • Anony Mous
    Anony Mous

    @Raimundo: various issues with that particular text - the translation is not that the Israelites were witnesses to God as if he needed a witness to prove his existence, but the other way around, they served as witnesses (evidence or proof) of the power of God.

    The same word was used in Genesis when Laban and Jacob made a covenant: Come now, let’s make a covenant, you and I, and let it serve as a witness between us. The word is exclusively used in this context of something standing as a witness of a covenant. When something needs heralding or announcing which is the context the JWs use the word, different Hebrew words are used generally what we translate into the word prophecy, which is also related to teacher, the Bible also clearly says that not everyone in Israel was supposed to be a prophet/teacher, even in the Bible, very few are pointed out and always by direct intervention and there were severe consequences for assuming that role.

    The word in the Greek texts to be used to announce/witness about Christ are similar to the word prophecy, not standing as proof.

  • Duran
    Duran

    [9 I John, your brother and a sharer with you in the tribulation and kingdom and endurance in association with Jesus, was on the island called Patʹmos for speaking about God and bearing witness concerning Jesus.]

    [9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness they had given. 10 They shouted with a loud voice, saying: “Until when, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 And a white robe was given to each of them, and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they had been.]

    [6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare to those who dwell on the earth, to every nation and tribe and tongue and people. 7 He was saying in a loud voice: “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of judgment by him has arrived, so worship the One who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and the springs of water.” 9 Another angel, a third, followed them, saying in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the wild beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he will also drink of the wine of the anger of God that is poured out undiluted into the cup of His wrath, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the sight of the holy angels and in the sight of the Lamb. 12 Here is where it calls for endurance on the part of the holy ones, those who keep the commandments of God and hold fast to the faith of Jesus.”]

    [4 And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years.]

    [9 After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. 10 And they keep shouting with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.”]


  • Touchofgrey
    Touchofgrey

    Can someone please provide independently verified evidence that a miracle worker called jesus existed and did the things that are recorded in the bible.

    The four gospels accounts were written by unknown authors many decades after the so called events, so not eyewitness accounts.

    Jesus at best was a apocalyptic preacher who was killed by the Roman's as were many others at the time .

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