His [Russell's] sincerity does not preclude him being a charlatan.
Charlatan in the sense of being a quack. Not in the sense of being a malicious trickster; a swindler; one who deceives for personal profit, etc..
Did Russell come up with the no hell fire and no Trinity doctrine or did steal that belief from another religion as well?
by nowwhat? 43 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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TD
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eyeuse2badub
I've read some really good comments here about CT not being a charlatan! So just maybe he didn't start out as a charlatan, BUT he sure did embrace that role as he saw his followers increase and his delusional view of the bible gain a measure of acceptance.
just saying!
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vienne
There is a difference between a word's denotation and its connotation. The two functions define a word.
Subtle definitions
The person called a charlatan is being accused of resorting to quackery, pseudoscience, or some knowingly employed bogus means of impressing people. The aim is the same, however: to swindle his victims by selling them worthless nostrums, and similar goods or services, that will not deliver on the promises made for them. The word calls forth the image of an old-time medicine show operator, who has long left town by the time the people who bought his snake oil tonic realize that it does not perform as advertised.
Legal implications
Because of the connotations about intentional deceit, calling a living person a "charlatan" can actually be libelous or slanderous. Therefore, even with mounting evidence in support it can be a dicey thing to just call someone out as a charlatan scam artist.
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eyeuse2badub
Thanks vienne for the English definition lesson. Sorry I struck such a nerve by referring to old CT as a charlatan. No he didn't sell 'snake oil' (just miracle wheat) he didn't sell other worthless goods (just lots of books that contained false and worthless information). His connection to pyramidology well here's a google search definition:
Pyramidology (or pyramidism) refers to various religious or pseudoscientific speculations regarding pyramids, most often the Giza pyramid complex and the Great Pyramid of Giza in Egypt.
He resorted to quackery with his pyramid sh*t----but you're right--he wasn't a charlatan!
just saying!
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sparky1
Anastasia, since you are interested in the legal ramifications of calling someone a charlatan, I thought that I might provide for you the legal definition of such:
Charlatan. One who pretends to more knowledge or skill than he possesses; a quack; a faker. - BLACKS LAW DICTIONARY page 213 edition of 1979
"True, it is expecting great things to claim, as we do, that within the coming twenty-six years all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved." "In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God will be accomplished near the end of AD1915." - Study IV The Times Of The Gentiles in the publication THE TIME IS AT HAND 1889 edition written by Pastor Russell
Since these direct statement never came true and the governments of the earth have not been dissolved, in the legal sense it would seem that Pastor Russell was indeed a CHARLATAN.
Since what he prophesied did not come true, he was also propagating LIES; albeit not in the strictest legal sense.
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vienne
There is a vast difference between being wrong, which Russell most definitely was, and a conscious pretense, a false representation. Words and their definitions matter.
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sparky1
I NEVER said that Pastor Russell consciously lied or made a false representation on purpose. In fact, I never called him a liar. I stated that he propagated lies. You may want to reread my post on the word lie. I quoted Merriam-Webster's online dictionary as follows:
lie noun (2)
1 b : an untrue or inaccurate statement that may or may not be believed true by the speaker or writer.
Pastor Russell sincerely believed the religious phantasies that he taught. Many of his theological pontifications turned out to be lies. History has proven that the charlatan Pastor Russell was teaching lies because the statements that he made about 1915 and earthly governments never came true.
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vienne
You see his doctrine as 'lies.' That's very subjective. Thousands of Bible Student adherents see his doctrines as absolute truth. They would dispute your characterization of his beliefs. In any case, to fit the definition of Charlatan, he would have have been consciously misrepresenting.
We're arguing about words here without making much progress.You present a definition of "lies" that is true in itself, but you misapply it to this situation. You've done the same with the word "charlatan" apparently to justify your characterization of Russell. I agree he was often wrong. I agree he believed things derived from others that were wrong. Being wrong does not make anyone a liar within the definition you quoted.
I'm disengaging from this conversation. We're parting here with both of us believing ourselves to be in the right. Would you characterize one of us as a liar? That's a rhetorical question ... You need not answer it.
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Diogenesister
Vienne's daughter read on these boards claims about his morals. They derive from newspaper articles. But the transcript of the Russell divorce is in the public record in Allegheny County. A copy is expensive, but it is available. No-one making assertions about his morals here or on other discussion boards seems to have read it. You really should before you believe what newspaper articles say. And I can hear someone muttering, 'but have you read it?' Yes, my Mom, her writing partner, B. W. Schulz, and my uncle Karl all have copies
Russell's wife was a decent sort and she intentionally kept the more salacious details of their marriage - or rather the reason she divorced Russell - OUT of the court transcripts. This is Unfortunate since it may have opened the eyes of a few witnesses.
I don't claim he was a pedophile, as some do. Merely that he was a typical repressed Victorian religious man and one who probably found it difficult to see his wife in a sexual light. However making lewd advances to your (adult) adoptive daughter is pretty immoral in my mind and certainly rules him out as gods chosen vessel.
Court transcripts : http://www.pastor-russell.com/misc/bde.html
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Diogenesister
NB I see Pastor Russell's selling of his "Miracle wheat" most definitely placing him in the 'charlatan' category.