"The Bible provides many ways to help us understand that the Holy Spirit is truly a person—that is, He is a personal being, rather than an impersonal thing. First, every pronoun used in reference to the Spirit is “he” not “it.” The original Greek language of the New Testament is explicit in confirming the person of the Holy Spirit. The word for “Spirit” (pneuma) is neuter and would naturally take neuter pronouns to have grammatical agreement. Yet, in many cases, masculine pronouns are found (e.g., John 15:26; 16:13-14). Grammatically, there is no other way to understand the pronouns of the New Testament related to the Holy Spirit—He is referred to as a “He,” as a person." GotQuestions.org
The Holy Spirit
by Acer21 24 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Acer21
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Acer21
JW's can you confirm:
It is my understanding that JW's no longer baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit (Mt. 28:19), but now baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Spirit-directed Organization. Is this true?
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Wonderment
Acer21 wrote: "The Bible provides many ways to help us understand that the Holy Spirit is truly a person—that is, He is a personal being, rather than an impersonal thing. First, every pronoun used in reference to the Spirit is “he” not “it.” The original Greek language of the New Testament is explicit in confirming the person of the Holy Spirit. The word for “Spirit” (pneuma) is neuter and would naturally take neuter pronouns to have grammatical agreement. Yet, in many cases, masculine pronouns are found (e.g., John 15:26; 16:13-14). Grammatically, there is no other way to understand the pronouns of the New Testament related to the Holy Spirit—He is referred to as a “He,” as a person."
You make it sound like the Bible speaks of the holy spirit throughout. Not so. Please show us ONE text where it clearly states that the spirit of God is a person. Secondly, it is not correct to claim that "every pronoun used in reference to the Spirit is ‘he’ not ‘it.’" Actually, the Bible uses "which" or "that" in reference to the spirit. Take the text you quoted that leads you to believe that the spirit is a person, Ephesians 4.30. There it mentions the spirit being grieved, with or by WHICH (Greek: ho = neuter) Christians are to be sealed. Note that Paul used "which" not "whom." However, some popular translations show their religious bias by changing "which" to "whom." Logically, if Paul believed the spirit to be a person, he would have used "whom." Since the spirit emanates from God, Paul could well warn Christians not to grieve the work of the spirit within the congregation which is tantamount to grieving God himself.
The exception of the above being John 15.26 and 16.13-14 which you noted. There Jesus personified the holy spirit as "a helper" to assuage their fear of being left alone after his departure. Jesus himself explained a few verses later that he spoke about the paraclete using a parable or comparison. Look at John 16.25.
By the way, a Catholic publication lays claim that ‘the doctrine of the holy spirit being a person had its beginning in the Catholic church,’ not in the Bible.
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skin
Acer215 hours ago
JW's can you confirm:
It is my understanding that JW's no longer baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit (Mt. 28:19), but now baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Spirit-directed Organization. Is this true?
No, not true. But they have removed the reference to "Gods spirit directed organization" in the baptism question. The name of the Father, Son, Holy spirit remain.
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cofty
Acer are you aware that there are few if any active JWs here?
This is an exJW forum.
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LV101
So sorry, caves - infuriating reading your account but at least you stood up for yourself with the goons. Infuriating 'thinking' about the money-grubbing cult on here alone past few minutes - they're consistent with poor mouthing/begging. The article on Lett grabbing ice cream money to buy more real estate - Terry's cuckoo article of the eggs the cult lays to seize people's nests and now god is a "figment of the imagination" (no proof otherwise) and holy spirit isn't a person but still an it. No wonder mental illness is so prevalent in the cult.
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Wonderment
It should be noted that the relative pronoun "ho" in the dative as in Ephesians 4.30 can be either masculine or neuter since they share the same form. However, the antecedent "the spirit, the holy" is in neuter, so the pronoun should be interpreted as neuter. Hence, the "which" instead of a "whom."
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Jofi_Wofo
Yet, in many cases, masculine pronouns are found
Yes, when it is personified. Like wisdom being female in Proverbs 8.
One of the two major problems with the trinity is that in order to interpret any scripture as a trinitarian proof text, you will either have to make the Bible contradict itself, or use logic that is contradicted by other scripture. The other major problem is, of course, that no matter how you choose to phrase your definition of what the Trinity supposedly is, you will never find any scripture in the Bible that actually describes what you're talking about. It's absolute classic eisegesis. You have to first accept it to be true in order to conclude it to be true- circular reasoning.
Now, why are you even on this forum? Are you trying to convince us that JWs don't have the truth? We already know that. Next up, it's your turn to realize that your religion isn't true either. Don't worry, it's not as scary as you might think.
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Half banana
The Koine Greek work for spirit pnevma (as already mentioned, grammatically neuter) meant wind and air, genderising it made it possible to indicate a personification -- but that doesn't make it factual!
As someone who had been deceived by the lure of the JW religion and the 'holiness' of the Bible, I now consider "Holy Spirit" to be a load of wind and hot air, undefined and uncontained -- unless you put it in your pneumatic tyres.
What a propaganda coup it was back in the day to get the pathetically submissive true believers to conceptualise an invisible helper to an already invisible force.
Just wear a funny hat and call a thing "holy" and oh my, how you can fool people! Yes this idea of holy spirit deserves ridicule.