Learning from History

by no-zombie 12 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • no-zombie
    no-zombie

    I was reading the book 'Five Stages of Collapse' by Dmitry Orlov, which discussed in part, people's attitudes toward the probability of societal collapse. One group of people, those who dispassionately examine facts, like scientists, engineers and accountants ultimately become diametrically opposed to the group of people with vested emotional interests, like politicians, businessmen and economists. And he made some interesting comments that parallel our situation when we consider how people are polarized over the future of the Organization.

    As we are well aware, just believing something will continue to grow or even continue to exist doesn’t necessarily mean it’s going to happen without the cold hard numbers to back it up. Just wishful hoping in Santa for example, isn’t a guarantee that that some fat guy will be sliding down your chimney in a few weeks’ time.

    Yet what is more interesting, is when we start thinking about how and why societies have collapsed in the past. And we have quite a few historical examples to learn from. The Mayan civilization, the Rapa Nui peoples of Easter Island and the Indus Valley civilizations are just some of the many to consider.

    And while the end of each civilization has its own unique story, there always 3 common factors seen; a lack of resources and the potential for growth, an inability to work with neighbors and an insulated ruling party.

    Sadly and perhaps relevant to us, is that dying civilizations (and in fact any highly organized structure) rarely wither away but rather have their population numbers crash violently just after reaching its peak. A common analogy used to illustrate this is the growth of bacteria in a petri dish. In the beginning the bacterial colony has plenty of room and food to grow. And it does so, exponentially enlarging until it hits the petri dish walls. With no food left, with where to go and without an ability to change its nature … the whole colony dies overnight.

    Can we see the parallel with the Organization? Even by using the very rubbery figures issued in the annual report, it is clear that it’s past its peak. The age demographics of the average Witness, the lack of fiscal income, the increasingly hostile environment due to the child abuse and blood transfusion issues is has created and the incredibly naive and insulated Governing Body, all show that the Society … re-branded or not … is not going to last.

    And while, we cannot know when things will fall apart, judging by the consolidation of WT funds and the circling of the wagons by those in power at Warwick, even some of them have seen the writing on the wall.


    As a post-script, if anyone is interested in societies and history, there is a very thought provoking TED talk by UCLA professor Jared Diamond found here … https://www.ted.com/talks/jared_diamond_on_why_societies_collapse#t-786291

  • LevelThePlayingField
    LevelThePlayingField

    Interesting. One thing though. We almost always get "new light" at an assembly or through the Watchtower. But if they bring out new light say gradually over years, bit by bit and then the religion actually changes from "Armageddon is just around the corner" religion to a religion that believes the end will come, but just don't know when, and it may NOT be around the corner.

    Say in 20 years that's how the GB will spin it. Now what? It's just a "feel good religion" that anybody can join, and all the die hards who are 70-80 years old will pretty much be gone and the younger generation will take over.

    Who knows what people's attitudes will be like by then concerning the things you have brought up. Maybe no one who's a JW will even care about the child abuse issues, whether they make the JW's look bad or not. Right now all the die hards just say it's apostate driven lies. But in 20 years maybe the GB will have changed and have everyone just call the police for a change. My point is, trying to say the JW's are on their way out isn't really holding up much water. I think they will be around long after we are all dead, sorry to say. But the GB will just change, just like with the overlapping generation thing. Just change it...

  • AussieBloke
    AussieBloke

    Hi Guys & Girls.

    I am new to the JWs, but I am really happy to have joined, everyone is so wonderful at my church.

    Also I would like to wish all my JW brothers and sisters around the world, a VERY merry Christmas and a HAPPY new year.

    All the best for 2017.

    Love

    Ryan. A wonderful AussieBloke.

  • AussieBloke
    AussieBloke

    .. oh and all my brother and sisters from the Parkwood Chapter, in WA Australia. See you all at the pub tonight. CHEERS !!

  • slimboyfat
  • no-zombie
    no-zombie

    I thought that the Organization would slowly evolve over time in the past too. However these days I don't believe that the GB has the time left to do something without making radical changes. This is because the world is changes faster than large corporations like WT can adapt. And when you think about the woes the Society has had to endure even just recently with the various law suits and inquiries, one has to wonder what the next few years will have in store for them. Let alone the other factors that I mentioned, in particular the Popes of the USA.

  • freddo
    freddo

    @AussieBloke

    Welcome to the forum.

    After you have wished everyone a Merry Xmas and taken the Parkwood brothers and sisters down the pub why don't you suggest everyone donates a pint of blood to help out the medical community over Xmas and the New Year?


  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    The JW Org is a business, with all the advantages of being a Tax Free one.

    With the down-sizing and cost cutting and the sale of assets they only have to raise a little more in the way of donations and they are O.K for a good while.

    They have realised that they cannot guilt much more to raise contributions in the ordinary way, just saying " Give us more money" has not worked that well, so they are now claiming they need more for " disaster relief".

    If ever this scam was looked in to by the Authorities it would be exposed, but that ain't going to happen, so they should be O.K for a good few more $$$ from the R&F who feel giving for Disaster Relief is a good thing

    They will survive I think, but, like the Titanic, they are not unsinkable, and may, I hope, hit their Iceberg.

  • dropoffyourkeylee
    dropoffyourkeylee

    I have read Jared Diamond's book about the collapse of civilizations. He made a big case for the conservation and responsible husbanding of resources. I'm not sure how relevant it is to compare to the WT situation.

    I think the WT is more headed on the trajectory of being a smaller religion with greatly reduced scope rather than disappearing entirely. Similar religions like the Mormons, SDA, and the Worldwide Church of God have gone through major changes and still survived, with varying success. The Worldwide Church of God nearly collapsed, but it is still around.

  • scratchme1010
    scratchme1010

    Can we see the parallel with the Organization? Even by using the very rubbery figures issued in the annual report, it is clear that it’s past its peak. The age demographics of the average Witness, the lack of fiscal income, the increasingly hostile environment due to the child abuse and blood transfusion issues is has created and the incredibly naive and insulated Governing Body, all show that the Society … re-branded or not … is not going to last.

    Hmmm, not sure if what the book mentions applies to the WT Society. First and foremost, again, the WT is not longer relying in its brand, nor in its people, nor in literature publishing, nor in people preaching. Once again, the WT IS IN THE REAL ESTATE BUSINESS. It's not on the verge of collapsing. It is a thriving, solid real estate business. They got gazillions of dollars to start their real estate kiosk when all KHs were turned over to them FOR FREE.

    The re-branding is just another smoke cloud and way of entertaining their crop from all the thing around child abuse (which they are handling beautifully since very little amount of JWs are leaving because of it) and the fact that they have a real estate business.

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