Encouraging scriptures for the day (page 22)

Kosonen

PetrW:

The conclusion of the text, "all the green grass will be burned", shows that this is a symbolic description. It is not a physical fire, but neither is it literal green vegetation.

Kosonen

PetrW,

I not so sure about your explanation.

We don't know if John saw a vision of the whole earth or a part of it. And because this was presented in signs, even if John saw that a third of the whole land mass of the earth was burned, it does not necessarily have to mean that a third really will burn. Instead it could point to the volcanic eruption on Iceland that went on for months and the ashes covered huge areas on Iceland.

I think the Revelation chapter 8 help us to know in what time we live since 2010.

ChildofGod89

Make sure your reading from a NON BIASED translation not the NWT.

PetrW

@Kosonen

K: We don't know if John saw a vision of the whole earth or a part of it.

P: For example, according to the text of Rev. 5:6, John "saw" that seven spirits were sent to "all the earth" (γη), likewise in 5:13 he describes (according to 5:11 he saw) all creation that is in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea and in them...

I was on the island of Patmos a little less than 20 years ago. For about a week. It had no major significance for the interpretation of Revelation, other than making one aware of space. The island is made up of these bays, in the form of ancient theatres, which rise steeply from the sea to the hills. It is quite rocky there, and for this reason, it is difficult to descend to the sea in these places. I think that somewhere, in a remote place, John was transported by an angel into the air and from that height he was shown - in modern terms we would say - a 3D cinema. So he saw the Earth (probably as a projection). If someone was there with him, then on the other side of the hill, they may not have heard anything, no thunder, no lightning - or attributed it to nature.

So I think he saw the whole earth (cf. also e.g. Rev 7:1 - angels on the four "corners" of the earth - I keep writing about the Greek word γη, which is usually translated as earth and also has symbolic value), so when he saw that "all the green grass was burned", he saw exactly that, green grass burning, being burned all over the earth. He saw physical fire and literal grass because he described it that way. As I wrote, I think you're thinking correctly at the beginning: it's always incumbent to ask whether a text can be understood literally. And only then, to ask whether it has, or can have, symbolic value as well. And the context suggests that yes, the text can be interpreted symbolically, because all the grass is to burn, but only 1/3 of the trees. This alone suggests that this is the intention. Further, if all the grass on the ground and 1/3 of the trees were to physically burn (burn!!!), then life would end and so would Revelation.

This reasoning of mine, then, points to the fact that this is a parable, composed of symbols.

To make a very long story short, then "trees" have a double symbolic meaning in Revelation: first, they are trees* that "bear fruit" according to Genesis chapter 1:11, and then "trees" that have "wicked" fruit. Jesus likens the false prophets in Matt. 7:15 to the very trees (7:18) that bear "vile" fruit. Now is it becoming clearer?

Let me explain just one more thing: why am I using statements Jesus said to comment on Revelation? Paul said in Col 2:2-3 that he wanted Christians to know the mystery of God: that is Christ - in him (Col 2:3) all wisdom and knowledge is stored/hidden, as in a storehouse** /treasury. And the well-known text of Rev 19:10 confirms that the sayings (literally: testimonies) of Jesus, are the "invisible, working force"/"spirit" of prophecy = simplified: what Jesus says is of primary and irreplaceable importance for Revelation.

I'll come back to the trees and grass: if Jesus, likening the false prophets to trees that bear no fruit, according to God's creation, what happens to them? Matt. 7:19 clearly says: they will be burned.

Here again an interjection: as I wrote, God saves people. For some might think that although Jesus used symbols and similes as literary forms, the burning of people, i.e., physical destruction, actually occurs. No. Only Satan, is a murderer of men. Paul again explains in 1 Cor. 3:11-15 that those who do not build on Jesus, but on another foundation, will be "exposed in the fire", the fire will "try" every work, every one of us. Then in verse 15 is the important passage for interpreting Rev. 8:4, that the fire will indeed punish such a person, but he, himself, will be saved.

This, in my opinion, has clarified the identity of the "trees" and then we just need to figure out what the 1/3 means. Here again, Jesus' parables come to the rescue. In Matt 25:14 ff he divides his servants into 3 groups (1/3 and 1/3 and 1/3) to whom he distributes symbolic talents. The last one, the third one, the last 1/3, "buries" his talent. According to Mat 25:19, the Lord returns after a very long time(!!!), and makes a reckoning. The last one, because he "buried" his talent, did not bear fruit as he should have, is cast out (Mat 25:30).

This, to me, ties it all together: the 1/3 of the trees, is symbolic, a leading group of false Christians who, though they may have borne fruit and been given talent, have brought nothing good. Thus they will be burned. Their works, they will burn. That's the punishment. But they themselves, if they repent of that punishment, will live. Some will not repent, that's why it's written about in other pages of Revelation, but I don't feel like writing it now😊 Just for completeness: it's very similar with the grass that all burns up, it refers to a similar group of people - I'll give you a hint: 1 Peter 1:24 cf. Matt 15:13.

One last thing: I'm not addressing here who, specifically, which organization or church will be affected by 1/3 of its "leadership" symbolically being burned. As I wrote, Revelation could have taken place in the 5th or 13th century. But it may not occur until the 23rd century. Therefore, to address the question of who specifically will be/are the trees in Rev 8:4 is, in my opinion, completely unnecessary. We don't know about that day and hour. Fire comes from heaven, not earth = God punishes, not men. My understanding is also that: Judge not and you shall not be judged...

* these are the "trees" in Rev 9:4 that are protected from the locusts' attacks

** θησαυρος - denotes "treasury", but the Greek, preserved on papyri from Roman imperial times, can also be found meaning "storekeepers", for example for grain brought by ship.

Kosonen

Spiritually blind people accused Jesus of being under the influence of a demon. How wrong they were!

John 10:20 Many of them were saying: “He has a demon and is out of his mind. Why do you listen to him?” 21 Others said: “These are not the sayings of a demonized man.

Luke 11:24 “When an unclean spirit comes out of a man, it passes through waterless places in search of a resting-place, and after finding none, it says, ‘I will return to my house from which I moved.’ 25 And on arriving, it finds the house swept clean and adorned. 26 Then it goes and takes along seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and after getting inside, they dwell there. So the final circumstances of that man become worse than the first.”

Luke 8:1 …And the Twelve were with him, 2 as were certain women who had been cured of wicked spirits and sicknesses: Mary who was called Magʹda·lene, from whom seven demons had come out; 3 Jo·anʹna the wife of Chuʹza, Herod’s man in charge; Su·sanʹna; and many other women, who were ministering to them from their belongings.

Kosonen

Love for truth is essential for salvation

2 Thessalonians 2:9 But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deceptive influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.

Kosonen

Wisdom, one of Jehovah God's qualities

Luke 24:25 So he said to them: “O senseless ones and slow of heart to believe all the things the prophets have spoken!

1 Timothy 2:13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 Also, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was thoroughly deceived and became a transgressor.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent seduced Eve by its cunning, your minds might be corrupted…

James 1:5 So if any one of you is lacking in wisdom, let him keep asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching, and it will be given him. 6 But let him keep asking in faith, ….

Queequeg

"I will have Arrakis back for myself! He who controls the Spice controls the universe and what Piter did not tell you is we have control of someone who is very close, very close, to Duke Leto! This person, this traitor, will be worth more to us than ten legions of Sardaukar!"

- Vladimir Harkonnen

Kosonen

Let's prepare our hearts

Isaiah 5:21 Woe to those wise in their own eyes And discreet in their own sight!.

Isaiah 2:11 The haughty eyes of man will be brought low, And the arrogance of men will bow down. Jehovah alone will be exalted in that day. 12 For it is the day belonging to Jehovah of armies. It is coming upon everyone who is haughty and lofty, Upon everyone, whether exalted or lowly,

Joel 2:11 …For the day of Jehovah is great and very awe-inspiring. Who can endure it?” 12 “Yet even now,” declares Jehovah, “return to me with all your hearts, With fasting and weeping and wailing. 13 Rip apart your hearts, and not your garments, And return to Jehovah your God, For he is compassionate and merciful, slow to anger and abundant in loyal love, …

Queequeg

“Look at me! "Look at me! Look at me NOW! It is fun to have fun But you have to know how.”

- The Cat in the Hat

Encouraging scriptures for the day

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