by bk62 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
hank hanigraff, the bible answer man, will be dealing specifically with witnessing to jws this mon & tues 3/l7 & l8. in tri-state area he is on wmca, 570am, but i know he broadcasts all over us & canada. maybe he will discuss something useful for you. you can find out schedule by calling l-888-ask-hank.
best wishes. nowisee
bk, welcome to the board! I'm married to Big Tex, and he pointed you in a few good directions to start your research. I've been a JW all of my life and finally stopped attending meetings last May for very good reasons (or bad, depending on who you talk to!). Tread carefully with your wife. Do not oppose her directly or she will be told it is persecution and will feel virtuous for opposing you. Be loving and kind and treat her like a reasonably human being without getting into arguments, and you will fare better. As for children, don't do it until both of you are united on how they will be raised.
I know an elder from the Phoenix area, Keith Stebbins, who used to be a missionary in Hawaii and branch overseer in the Dominican Republic. He's a good guy but a company man, unfortunately.
Anyway, good luck, bon chance, buena fortuna, and let us know how things are going.
Nina
Welcome to the board!
I'm going to go out on a limb here. The fact that she is choosing to kick and scream about the merits of Witnesses- devoid of any family pressure- is because something else is wrong. Something else must be lacking in her life for her to be drawn to them. Its classic cult dynamics at work. Find out what that 'something' or 'somethings' is and you not only solve tthe WTS problem, but enrich your lives. I'm a big believer in a wholistic aproach to problems. Keep us posted in any case. -J
G'day Brian (bk62) and please let me add my words of welcome from us guys "downunder".
You've started your posting life with a real "bottler". I guess Francois' comment to you that you're headed down a hard road is very true. Certainly there are enough experiences related here over the years to put any thinking person off the Dubs for life! The first thing you need to do is STOP THAT STUDY. Sorry to shout but you've gotta hear me! While you're studying you're in grave danger of being indoctrinated. Think about it: you will have emotional pressure from your wife, coupled with I dare say, little time to thoroughly investigate the Witness' doctrines.
The second thing you need do, as outnfree and others have advised, is read Crisis of Conscience. You must, OK? And so should your lovely wife. Do it before it's too late.
As far as the doctrinal things are concerned that you mentioned, I'd suggest you visit Randy Watter's site and avail yourself of many or any of the excellent publications he has available. Take out a subscription to the Freeminds Journal. Study them before you study again with the Dubs!
http://www.freeminds.org/index.html
My very best to you in your journey to freedom.
Cheers, Ozzie
I would like to say Beware!!!Francois has told you like it it. I was a JW for over 20+ years.I was kicked out because I dont believe Jesus came invisibly in 1914- What ever you do-----DONT argue over the WT-They have already conditioned their members that any one that argues against their teaching is of the Devil..... If you love her. Show her that love- I Think it is going to be a long haul for you-Yes Please dont bring kids into the WT ----it is abuse!!!. I made my three Daughters JW- my baby Melanie died at 42 -The WT told me she would never get through Kindergarten....My eldest daughter is a full fledged JW wont speak to me- My other daughter is now free ...My son died at 46 but we had so many disagreements when he lived---- Because he tried to tell me it was a cult>>>>>So In my eyes & through the teachings of the WT we thought we were right- THANK GOD I found out it was a cult before he died & we were friend....
I want to thank everybody who has taken the time to resond to my dilemma. You have given me a lot to think about, as I've already mentioned in a reply to Francois' post.
First off I'd like to mention what happened at our most recent Bible Study. My wife brought up the issue of me being divorced, and asked what it meant to the JW's. She was told that, since we were both "ignorant" before, we will be forgiven and can stay married (as long as we pray and don't make the same mistake again). My wife (Alma) then commented that she was relieved, b/c she was thinking she would have to divorce me. That concerns me even more - if the JW couple had told her to, I really believe she would have told me she wanted a divorce.
She then told the couple that I had questions about the Bible, and that I had claimed they did their own translation (I never went as far as to say they "translated" it to suit them, as I felt that would have been crossing the line). They were a little surprised, but of course had an answer to my questions. They said that theirs is the only TRUE translation, and that it was translated directly from the original scriptures. Of course they can't prove that any more that I can prove any other translation is accurate, so it didn't really go any further than that. They did make one comment that surprised me though; they told me that the "Reasoning Book" tells JW's to keep many different Bibles handy, so they can look it up and see different teachings. Is this true? I had always heard that the GB insists they read only WTBS literature and writings.
Another comment I would like to add before I start addressing your individual responses...one of my biggest weaknesses is that, although I was brought up a Catholic, I never really learned the Scriptures as well as I should have. So when the JW's comment about how stupid the Trinity is, and how there's no such thing as Heaven, I have a difficult time refuting it. (Only a few examples, of course).
SheilaM
Thanks so much for your commentary. Yours (in a way) opposes what the others have been suggesting, but it's well worth taking note of. I guess one of the most important factors would be, if I'm able to keep them (my kids) away from the JW's. Everything I've read seems to indicate that if I allow them to get their grips on my children, they will grow up to be very unhappy. So I'm reasoning that if I decide to have kids, I had better be pretty confident that I can control who influences them. Thanks, and congratulations on your grandbaby!!!
XJW
Your post made me really stop and think, for several reasons. For one, I can totally understand your reservations about "feeding" the trolls and giving them a reason to continue (instead of ignorning them until they go away). I can assure you that I'm not one of them. I am being very candid with our situation, in the hopes that somebody will relay their experience and thereby help me to choose an approach in opening Alma's eyes. After my first post, I've already received an abundance of responses (such as yours) and resources which I'm sure will be *very* helpful. As I said earlier, I'm just trying to gather facts right now. Once I feel I have enough knowledge, I will start trying to slowly "plant the seeds" as somebody else has described, in order to get Alma to start thinking on her own. I'm very glad that you were able to see that I'm being very sincere. Yes - I can see that Francois is very much respected here. I haven't yet had time to read his quotes on other issues, but I will definitely do that.
I am curious - what did you mean when you said I don't have access to WTBS's own publications? I do get the Watchtower (which I consider a huge waste of time), and I've considered ordering the same publication on CD so I can research their inconsistencies. Is there something else that would help with my situation? Or is it only available to certified...I mean baptised JW's? Yes I do love Alma very much and intend to do whatever I can to open her eyes, regardless of what that takes. It's very encouraging to read situations such as yours and CJ's, where you were both very much committed to the organization. If you can "get out", I'm sure I can find a way to get her out as well. Thanks!!
LiquidSky
Their agenda is so apparent (to me, at least) it's pathetic. Right now they're just so nice, and seem to be able to come up with a logical answer to everything my wife asks. It seems so funny to me - my divorce was ok to them (and of course to Jehovah) b/c I was ignorant. I bet that, if they knew that they have no chance to "get" me, they would have probably told Alma that Jehovah requires her to divorce me. Thanks!!
Big Tex
Thanks for the links - I will definitely take a look and see what else there is that I can "file away"!!!
Paduan
I like the way you worded "Plant little seeds" - I will definitely do that.
StarScream
You describe exactly the way I've been looking at it. I feel that if I let her go alone, they'll eventually convince her that I'm not there because I don't care, don't want to know "the Truth" with her. She's only really started seriously studying with them for about the past 6 months or so. She does want to become baptised, so I feel there's an urgency there. The only thing I've refused to attend with her is the 2-hour deal on Tuesday Nights - Theocratic Ministry I think? I already feel like I waste too much time going to the other meetings, and don't want it to consume all our time. The good thing is - she only goes on some Tuesdays - probably about 50/50.
Czar
Sure - give me the easy way out!!! :) Yes I'm ready for a long road. I don't even know how to begin, other than gathering as much information as possible and filing it for easy access at a later time. Crisis Of Conscience must be a really good book - you're one of many who have recommended it. I will say that I'm a little hesitant to just leave it lying around the house right now. I don't want her to know (yet) how diligently I am digging for information which I can eventually use to change her mind. Thank you for your comment and prayers!
JGNAT
You suggested exactly what I'm doing - hopefully that means I'm starting off on the right foot. I'm only asking little questions right now, and acting like I'm satisfied with their answers. But then I'm researching the answer, finding a way to refute *it*, and then asking another "innocent" question at the next meeting with them. So far no major advances, but I think they're starting to get to a point where they realize it's going to take more than a simple answer out of their reasoning book. Thanks for your comment about wives with "unbelieving" husbands. At least that means, unless I screw up with her big-time, I still have a chance!
I have several responses left, but I need to send this and do some work!! Sadi, OutNFree, Nowisee, CruzanHeart, HappySunshine, OzziePost and Mouthy, I want to thank you as well for your time and opinions. I will be answering your posts later today.
Thank you all!!
Brian
