Dub, aside from your remarks about RO, can you reply to his post or to the Topic?.....Fisherman
dub, I am not required to reply. I can only listen if I want......Fisherman
Poll - Will you accept blood?
by OrphanCrow 75 Replies latest watchtower medical
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OUTLAW
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OrphanCrow
I have said this before but I want to say it again...for emphasis ;)
Bloodless surgery does not mean that no blood is used in the surgery.
"Bloodless" means that the patient is bloodless - the patient's body has less blood in it than it should have. The patient's body is bloodless. Up to 80% of their blood is removed -a bloodless patient.
I think this is one of the greatest deceptions that the Watchtower has pulled off concerning their quasi medical advice. They have taken advantage of a word twist to make it appear that "bloodless surgery" doesn't use blood. When JWs hear "bloodless" they think that it means no blood is necessary when it really means that it is their body that will be bloodless in order to create a bloodless surgical field.
And, when it comes to the WT's "softening" stance on the blood issue - something I have heard many times - back around 2000 - that again was a big deception. The allowance of fractions and artificial blood served the needs of patient blood management and had nothing at all to do with religious doctrine - it had to do with patient blood management requirements.
Religious belief? No. Belief in patient blood management. PBM relies on blood fractions and artificial blood.
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Listener
Ten years after leaving the Org. I gave birth to my first child. It was a difficult birth and immediately after (in the shower) I lost a lot of blood. I had already signed a non consent form to a blood transfusion.
I was told that due to the amount of loss I should consider a transfusion. The Nurses were very pushy but that is their job- to encourage the patient to do what they believe, is in the patients own best interest. Amongst other comments they said that as a new mother I would be better able to look after my newborn with a transfusion. I refused and felt like I was being treated with disgust.
I was exhausted and on waking I found a bag of clear fluid flowing into my arm. I didn't have the energy to find the buzzer to call the nurse but managed to stay awake waiting for one to come into my room. I was alarmed, thinking it was a blood product. I mustered the energy to ask her what it was and whether it was a blood by product. She nastily told me it wasn't. If it had been, I was going to ask her to remove it. On her reassurance I immediately fell into a deep sleep.
Sometime later I was given 4 iron tablets to take and told that the Doctor didn't want to give me a painful injection so I would need to take these four times a day. I questioned the amount and was told smartly that 'it's what the Doctor ordered'. Before the second round of 4 tablets a few hours later I asked a more approachable nurse who acknowledged that it seemed like a lot and checked with the Doctor. He advised that the dosage was 1 tablet four times a day, not 4 tablets four times a day (16 tablets every 24 hours).
It was not a pleasant experience and after 7 days I asked to be discharged. They did not want to do so and after pleading with them and telling them that my stay in hospital was difficult and I was sure I would recover better at home they agreed to let me go.
It was difficult at home as I was very weak. I didn't know that I was developing Mastitis (which was making me even weaker) and fortunately a Child Care Nurse noticed it during a check up a few weeks after giving birth, she told me it was so bad I may need an operation.
Overall it took a few months to feel 100% and I could have prevented the trauma I faced in those months if I had accepted the transfusion. Also the joy, fun and elation of having my first child would have been felt by me so much more but that's probably just being selfish :( Even breast feeding was a problem.
Now this isn't anywhere near as traumatic as many others have had to face and it wasn't life threatening (but could have been if I had not taken advantage of the health care provided afterwards). However, it did make life difficult for me and unfortunately I wasn't able to do my best for my newborn.
I had told my non JW mum what had occurred who later told me what my JW father had said. There was no sympathy from him, rather disgust. He said I had accepted a plasma transfusion. I don't know what upset me more at the time, the lack of sympathy or the false claim.
Thanks to guys like you, who examine what the Bible principles are, share them and allow discussions, I would now accept a blood transfusion when it is necessary. When I say necessary I don't just mean when it is a life or death situation but when it is in the best interest of the individual concerned and their own particular circumstances.
Certainly there are a number of things that must be weighed up in deciding whether a transfussion is appropriate but that is the case with any medical treatment we receive (even with what may appear to be simple things such as accepting 4 iron tablets, 4 times a day, lol.)
I was glad that I could rely on my never a JW husband would authorise a transfusion, if necessary, for our children but to be honest, even when I still felt it was not okay, I would have permitted my children having one. After all, my reasoning would have been that it wasn't them that would be doing anything wrong, but the guilt would be all mine. -
dubstepped
OC, can you elaborate more on the sham that was created through the dub's supposed "bloodless" medicine?
Also, can you elaborate on what happened around 2000?
I'm learning parts of things here that I actually knew nothing about. If you've made threads examining these issues before feel free to point those out. The Watchtower has lied and manipulated so many things, suddenly changing for one reason and trying to make it look like another, and this is an area that I haven't looked in yet.
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OrphanCrow
dubstepped: can you elaborate on what happened around 2000?
It was in the June 15, 2000 Watchtower that doors seemed to open into the use of more fractionated blood products and artificial blood (made from cow's blood or from expired human blood). The WT had been quietly allowing various fractions of blood for years but it was the 2000 policy change that really opened up the use of blood products for JWs.
You can read more about that here:
http://ajwrb.org/do-jehovahs-witnesses-really-abstain-from-blood
It is important to note, too, that 2000 was also the year that the Society for the Advancement of Blood Management was founded - a coalition of medical doctors and Hospital Liaison Committee members.
The SABM sets standards for PBM and BM around the world - standards for blood usage for all of us have been set by WT's HLC and JW friendly doctors.
The SABM was involved in the Hemopure trials and in STORMACT that was established in response to 9/11.
More about SABM and STORMACT on this thread here:
OC, can you elaborate more on the sham that was created through the dub's supposed "bloodless" medicine?
I am not sure where to start!
This thread here might answer some of that question:
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Island Man
I'm with Cofty. I have no religious objections to blood but blood transfusions are not without risk so I can't say I'll accept all blood treatments which could mean accepting unnecessary blood treatments - and hence unnecessary risk - for non-life-threatening conditions. I will accept blood in a life-threatening emergency and/or if there aren't safer effective alternatives available to treat my medical situation. So I voted "some". The poll could have had more choices to get a more nuanced input of XJWs' feelings on the matter. I feel like the choice I chose does not fully express my view.
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OrphanCrow
IslandMan: So I voted "some". The poll could have had more choices to get a more nuanced input of XJWs' feelings on the matter. I feel like the choice I chose does not fully express my view.
Sorry about that. I guess I could have made the answers reflect your position (and Cofty's and others) better.
I was mostly concerned with trying to find out if there are exJWs who will still take a hard-line stance about blood and refuse it under all circumstances.
If you would accept blood when necessary, I would say that the first response is more correct - that you will accept medical treatment that requires blood...but only in special circumstances. Which is a reasonable position to take and one based on rationality instead of just on belief.
I was thinking that "some" would be more in line with the JW position of blood fractions and artificial blood only - no plasma and no whole blood. No hemoglobin.
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smiddy
When i was a JW , definetely not under any circumstances .
As an ex JW definitely , under any and all circumstances. .
I may be wrong in my thinking here but those ex JW`s who still have doubts about accepting blood as a medical procedure could still be influenced by the WT reasoning for refusing blood.
They are /could still be Captives Of A Concept.
However the fact that the WT has never got anything right these past 100+ years and that no other religion especially the Jewish religion agrees with the WT interpretation of the said scriptures ,thats good enough for me.
Having said that I appreciate their are others (JW`s & non JW`s ) who do not want their body contaminated with someone elses blood for whatever reasons., and that is their perogative.
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OrphanCrow
Oh dear...I just realized that I posted the wrong link on my last post:
OC, can you elaborate more on the sham that was created through the dub's supposed "bloodless" medicine?
I am not sure where to start!
This thread here might answer some of that question:
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5700923452030976/watchtowers-medical-bible-hlc-handbook?page=1&size=10The link I meant to post was this one:
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Doubting Bro
I'm technically still a JW but yes, I would accept medically necessary blood. I would also authorize for my immediate family.
One of the more emotional symbolic things I did while waking up was rip up my executed Advance Medical Directive. Fortunately, I never provided a copy to the congregation nor to any medical professionals. I was given a new one maybe a year ago and promptly torn up the blank copy.
It was quite therapeutic to destroy that symbol of control over my individual decisions. The anger that boiled up when I thought about how many people died over this stupid policy was pretty intense. Their callous disregard for the individual members over a long held superstition is unreal and unchristian. It would be one thing to make it a conscious matter and not subject to congregation discipline and just speak in unfavorable terms. It's quite another to make the decision to use blood a disassociating item so basically you don't even get a JC.
To the WT monitors, I know you don't care but if you believe in God, understand you will answer for all those deaths.